Ulduar - Page 13

Valerian · 04/20/09, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by Squib

We also never managed to get two tanks up at the same time, if this was down to luck or not i have no clue but it seemed that if we had one up the other would be destroyed. Anyone manage to get two up at the same time on 10 man?

After wiping to the trash (clearing 2 packs) we gave up there and killed Thorim and Freya. When we came back the trash was JUST respawning. We managed to get 3 tanks up for the last pull (all the previous ones) with the first tank initiating the pull and getting destroyed ~20 sec later. Oddly the second two tanks didn't have any drivers in them. I don't know if this is normal or something due to how the packs respawned.

Sillia · 04/20/09, 5:32 PM

With regards to Ignis, what seemed to work best for me as a warrior tank was to lead them into the scorch, stun them (shockwave, revenge, conc blow) and then run to the very edge of the scorch, such that the scorch is between you and it. Once they come out of the stun, they take the straight line path to you and stay in the scorch while you aren't.

When you are moving with them, they tend to behave funny. They do that sort of stutter step that mobs tend to do when things are a little laggy and sometimes run through you, or just keep changing places with you. I suspect that it's the added lagginess of Ulduar in general that's causing this, so once it quiets down a bit, things will be a little easier.

Ryanb · 04/20/09, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by Squib

Regarding the pre-mimiron trash. After much blindly throwing ourselves at it in 10 man and seeing what worked and what didn't the way we settled was to have the spider bot from the previous pull initiate the pull with the leap stun an effectivly tank the whole lot using the flame thrower ability. It lacks the avoidance of a player tank but its 380k health pool makes up for it and it allows everyone to focus on locking the hell out of those damn sappers. If this translates upwards to to the 25man level i have no idea.

We also never managed to get two tanks up at the same time, if this was down to luck or not i have no clue but it seemed that if we had one up the other would be destroyed. Anyone manage to get two up at the same time on 10 man?

I noticed that if you pulled and wiped but downed the Bomb Bots or Spider Bots, they would not respawn the next time you did the pull.

I found our tactic for Mimiron trash made it really simple. We had a paladin run in, throw down Consecration and Avenger's Shield, then just run all the way out to the area where Auriaya patrolled. The rest of the raid stands way back and takes out the bombs and does NOTHING to the Sappers. The sappers have a range on their beams and due to the staircases in the outer room, they never cast the beam one time because the Prot Paladin always went out of LOS before they could reach him. So he just kept running around in a circle and throwing down a Consecration to keep threat. We had a priest follow him around and keep up renew.

Once the other trash mobs were dead, we had a warrior taunt one sapper off of the paladin and had the paladin continue kiting the other two - very slowly killing all of the sappers one at a time. We still would have clothies die if we didn't manage to land timely stuns, however.

Kayella · 04/20/09, 7:37 PM

Anyone manage to get two [tanks] up at the same time on 10 man?

Yes, I can confirm you can get two tanks up at the same time. We had a few 'issues' with the trash (you can imagine) but had two tanks up for the final trash pull and their leap-stun was invaluable.

Jaete · 04/20/09, 9:02 PM

Originally Posted by Baalzaman

There is a simpler way. The cats pounce ability has a minimum range (8 yards) so a line of sight pull (we used death and decay and hiding the raid around a corner) is the way to go, and is a lot safer. Even so you have to be careful with misdirects etc, because if all 4 cats hit one tank at the same time even without pounce the tank is likely to get instagibbed.

We didn't really have much trouble with the pull. Just sent a shaman to drop a totem on her path then run far away (you can also use death & decay, hunter pet etc); once everything's aggroed on the the shaman, the tanks just stand there waiting, get in melee range of their assigned cats, and hit them. Zero pounces. You can also use misdirect to get a cat on a tank that's hiding out of LoS behind a corner, so that when the cat gets in LoS the tank is already within 8 yards of it. Once you eliminate pounces the fight is basically won.

Ryanb · 04/21/09, 2:46 AM

Does anyone know if you can just skip Iron Council and go straight to Kologarn and then the 4 watchers?? I'm assuming once you reach a new teleport pad it can be accesses regardless of whether or not the trash leading up to it is dead.

Pasco · 04/21/09, 2:48 AM

Yes, you can!

fr0d0b0ls0n · 04/21/09, 3:08 AM

Originally Posted by Jishosan

Our guild did 10-man last night. We spent a good deal of time wiping on Ignis.

It appears we are having a hard time positioning the boss and the constructs, and they aren't getting their 20 stacks before we get even more adds to be dealt with. I'm rooting constructs in the scorch, but the time the OT is having to spend in the scorch to position, it seems like the damage he is taking is really out of bounds (like 7k a tick). We ran with 3 healers (2 priest + 1 druid), and our tank was a warrior, and OT a DK. We have a Mage and a Boomkin to handle shatters, but between raid healing, healing the OT, healing the MT, and healing the slag pot, it seems like our healers have a lot to do while we're getting flame jets and chased by errant Constructs.

I've watched some videos, but none of them seem to be very detailed, and I haven't seen a lot of detailed strats yet. Anyone care to share details on their successes for our raid tonight?

If you have multiple constructs ups your tank is doing it badly. We did it easily with this strat (and we are a 10 man guild, so no great gear):

3 Healers: 1 on tank, 1 on offtank/slagpot duty, 1 on raid (flame jets) or tank. If a healer gets in the salgpot he stays in the SAME duty.

We tank Ignis near the water doing the 1st scorch in the side near the water, one in the water (disappears), one in the other side, again water, repeat. All the raid is at melee range in his back (this helped with the melee/slagpot bugs too).

Our offtank get the construct in the scorch staying outside, he stuns it if a flame jet is incoming (i tryed to root sometimes to help for the same reason). At 20 stacks he gets it to the water and goes to the next construct. I feral charged the construct and destroyed it with a single Shred every time.

Taja · 04/21/09, 3:53 AM

We finally managed to kill Auriaya yesterday despite her bugging out several times. At random times (80%, 60%, 40%) the sentinels instantly respawned in the middle of the raid. (not the 4 that patrol the same path as auriaya before). Apparently they were somehow linked to that pack regardless. So we tanked her in the middle of the room where you come down from Kologorn. When the patrol was coming right side we moved her to the left and switched back to right room when patrol left. Some dodgy movement but atleast the cats didn't respawn.

• ash2ash · 04/21/09, 5:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ryanb

I experienced the General Vezax heal bug in 10 man as well. It took us a lot of tries to eventually down him (no help in part from the retarded 1 hour respawn on the trash that should be spaced farther apart).

He heals for 100k a tick per person and the Mark of the Faceless will tick the instant it is applied - no delay at all. The heal is also capped at 5 people being drained at a time, so on ten man that averages to ~ 6.5% of his life healed the instant he applies it if it hits the full 5 players. On 25man the same ability will only heal him for ~1.5% of his life per second.

I am assuming that it's intended for the caster DPS to bunch up in the Shadow Crashes. I am also assuming that it's intended for more than 1-2 people to be able to use a Saronite Vapor at any given time. Based on how easy he is on the 25man I think it's safe to say that he's bugged.

The way we overcame this was to wait until after a Mark of the Faceless to use a Saronite Vapor and limited people to two at a time for every Shadow Crash (multiple will be up).

I also noticed that about 40% of the Saronite Vapors gave me no mana back at all.

We were having issues with Vezax-10 as well, and without anybody to apply a healing debuff, he was initially healing for large amounts. We fixed this by making everybody except healers standing in melee range of the boss and basically had the tank drag him over the shadow crash zones. This ensured that the healers were the only ones who got the crashes/marks.

We haven't downed him yet but this strat seems a little too far fetched. I think that he was intended to be defeated with all ranged standing on crashes and all healers standing on vapors. It also seems that 10 man is bugged(?) to allow only one healer to stand on a vapor at a time and regain mana. The meant none of the dps casters could use the vapors. This seems to take alot of the fun out of the encounter for me, esp when melee dps basically are faceroliing.

Also, IDK if this is a bug but the crashes seem to give dk's unlimited runes, leading to an obscene dps advantage.

As far as the trash went, I love it. We basically had to excecute perfect CC on the mobs in order to clear it. Really, so long as you cc 3 of the mobs, all the pulls were fairly simple with the exception of the first patrolling faceless one. The only problem I encountered was that Mirror Image seems to be bugged to cause instant aggro on Vezax.

Ryanb · 04/21/09, 5:48 AM

Originally Posted by ash2ash

We were having issues with Vezax-10 as well, and without anybody to apply a healing debuff, he was initially healing for large amounts. We fixed this by making everybody except healers standing in melee range of the boss and basically had the tank drag him over the shadow crash zones. This ensured that the healers were the only ones who got the crashes/marks.

We haven't downed him yet but this strat seems a little too far fetched. I think that he was intended to be defeated with all ranged standing on crashes and all healers standing on vapors. It also seems that 10 man is bugged(?) to allow only one healer to stand on a vapor at a time and regain mana. The meant none of the dps casters could use the vapors. This seems to take alot of the fun out of the encounter for me, esp when melee dps basically are faceroliing.

Also, IDK if this is a bug but the crashes seem to give dk's unlimited runes, leading to an obscene dps advantage.

As far as the trash went, I love it. We basically had to excecute perfect CC on the mobs in order to clear it. Really, so long as you cc 3 of the mobs, all the pulls were fairly simple with the exception of the first patrolling faceless one. The only problem I encountered was that Mirror Image seems to be bugged to cause instant aggro on Vezax.

This strategy works great except that it's not intended. With the 3.1.1 patch coming out tomorrow they are adding "General Vezax’s abilities, Mark of the Faceless and Shadow Crash, may hit players in melee range depending on the situation and player setup."

We finally managed to kill Auriaya yesterday despite her bugging out several times. At random times (80%, 60%, 40%) the sentinels instantly respawned in the middle of the raid. (not the 4 that patrol the same path as auriaya before). Apparently they were somehow linked to that pack regardless. So we tanked her in the middle of the room where you come down from Kologorn. When the patrol was coming right side we moved her to the left and switched back to right room when patrol left. Some dodgy movement but atleast the cats didn't respawn.

We experienced a bug with Auriaya yesterday where the Feral Defender just fell through the world and we never had to deal with it once. Can't say I'm complaining :P

Désespoir · 04/21/09, 6:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ryanb

Does anyone know if you can just skip Iron Council and go straight to Kologarn and then the 4 watchers?? I'm assuming once you reach a new teleport pad it can be accesses regardless of whether or not the trash leading up to it is dead.

As a reminder :

Flame Leviathan : Mandatory
Ignis : Optional
Razorscale : Optional
XT-002 : Mandatory
Assembly of Iron (Iron Council) : Optional but Hard mode is mandatory for Algalon acces key (and it will be mandatory to kill the council to access the Archivum for the start fo the quest for Val'anyr, not clear if a normal kill will be enough or if a hard mode kill will be required)
Kologarn : Mandatory
Auriaya : It should be possible to skip her but there is almost no interest to do it, her aggro radius is very large and pulling the first trashs of Freyia or Mimiron would be challenging.
Watchers : Mandatory
General Vezax : Mandatory
Yogg-Saron : Mandatory as a final objective.

Lucinde · 04/21/09, 6:29 AM

Originally Posted by Squib

Regarding the pre-mimiron trash. After much blindly throwing ourselves at it in 10 man and seeing what worked and what didn't the way we settled was to have the spider bot from the previous pull initiate the pull with the leap stun an effectivly tank the whole lot using the flame thrower ability. It lacks the avoidance of a player tank but its 380k health pool makes up for it and it allows everyone to focus on locking the hell out of those damn sappers. If this translates upwards to to the 25man level i have no idea.

We wiped a fair few times at the 25-men edition of this trash yesterday and found out that the Tanks, Bombs and the Trash are mostly harmless. The only dangerous mobs are these Sappers and they will murder your raid if you're stacked up somewhat.

They can, however, be stunned, feared, slowed, cycloned and everything-else'd, so what we ended up doing, having two warlocks in the raid, was just fearing two and zerg the third, then finish the Tank and the Trash before killing the last two.

Someone in the raid noticed that when they move they don't use their beam, and since they move slow, you can actually just kite them with a any ranged class. I can even imagine just nuking them with ranged similarly to handling the Assault Bots of Mimiron phase 3. As long as it's moving it's good. When it stops, you die :-)

Cranberry · 04/21/09, 7:54 AM

Originally Posted by Désespoir

As a reminder :

<stuff about boss optionalness>

As an additional note, and this has certainly been helpful in pugging 10-man, because of the number of optional bosses you can easily have many potential fights to attempt depending on your raid makeup. At a maximum, by killing Flame Levi -> XT -> Kologarn, you can theoretically attempt Ignis, Razorscale, Assembly of Iron, Auriaya, or any Keeper.

Regarding XT-002, I am told by a priest friend but haven't seen it anywhere that Gravity Bomb works on scrapbots. I will be emphatic that I have not personally confirmed this, but it's from a friend that I do trust.

With regard to Flame Leviathan's perma-combat, we had it happen and it turned out we had a Storm Beacon active. Not sure if that was the problem for you, but killing it dropped combat for us.

Kyai · 04/21/09, 8:01 AM

Edit: Delete, got my breaths confused.