Hello and welcome.

I have a question about the relative merits and value of Strength and Agility in PvE warrior damage that I'd like to get some feedback on. I know, I know, calm down already.

I am aware that any attempt to compare these figures for Fury warriors with Flurry is complex to the point of making your head really hurt till you need to go for a little lie down, but thankfully, because I'm too stupid to understand more than one button, I'm MS/Impale build.

I've done my own maths with my own really rubbish equations and run some numbers through this and every test seems to suggest that with any vaguely realistic amount of crit, you gain more from 1 Str than you do from 1 Agi.

Basically, so far as I can see, if you try any direct comparison, you get 1 Str being worth about 2 Agi, or even more. When I feed my own numbers in (24% crit 870 AP for the sake of argument) to get the same DPS increase I get from 40AP, I'd need an increase of over 2.5% crit.

Now I'd always assumed that crit was great because I'd basically never really gone that far into it and hey, big massive numbers look really cool, right? But now I need to consider how much threat my damage is creating, so fewer crits are good, and having the choice of the really top end equipment, I want to make sure I'm going for the right trinkets/rings/enchants so on and so forth.

I am now very definitely under the impression that Gloves legs and head should have Strength enchants on, rather than Agility. That Str>Crit up to limits beyond which you cannot get with the equipment currently available in the game. But am I right, or have I managed to create some kind of crazed, imaginary statistical mess, the repercussions of which will see my Allakhazam profile laughed at by really clever people with glasses and ill fitting trousers, as they do as much as 100 more damage over an entire Molten Core run?

Cos, you know, that would really bum me out.

Check this http://forums.patchtimer.org/thread.cgi?thread_id=490. This thread has loads of usefull information.

http://www.wowguru.com/db/chars/breaksmith-id289980/

:P

Nah that's old. :)

He has Untamed Blade, Hakkar neck, Drake Talon Pauldrons, uh those legs from Hakkar with loads of strength on. Those feral bracers from MC. Onslaught Girdle. And maybe other stuff too.

Although by all means laugh at him. He is a :dong:

How the...

I don't remember ever uploading myself on there. Cute though, it's like someone has opened a doorway back to simpler, more innocent times. These days I'm all like Untamed Blade and Drake Talon Pauldrons and POW! and BLAM! and KERBOOM! and posting about maths on the EJ forums.

Anyway, that thread has answered the simple part of my question - AP > Crit so get Strength enchants all round, but as it's almost all based on Fury Warriors (I have to steal too many things from our Rogues with too few DKP to work with for that to happen) so I'm still unsure of the kind of ratio I should be looking at.

They are suggesting that around 25 AP = 1% Crit for 5/5 Flurry builds, but I'm not wholly sure how that figure works out for MS builds. I'm guessing that AP is even more valuable for us "bind every key to MS and just rub your face on the keyboard" types, but hey, I'm not here to guess, I'm here to have maths I cannot possibly begin to understand thrown at my face until the raw, bitter shame and humiliation drives me to suicide.

Fury is by far a better build for PvE DPS. It's like combat swords vs seal fate daggers when you compare Fury to MS.

A little math on UTB+BT I posted on my guild forums a few days ago.

This assumes you use the lvl 50 warrior quest trinket, earthstrike, and cloudkeeper's. You macro them to activate when the untamed proc goes off. All vs 0 armored targets.

Average well geared 60 warriors self buffed AP = 1200.

1200 + 285 + 150 + 600 + 100 = 2335. Base BT = 1050.75

Crit = 2311.65
Enraged = 2889.56
DW TOO! = 3467.47

Now if crusader procced too :o

2535AP = 1140.75 base
Crit = 2509.65
Enraged = 3137.06
DW TOO! = 3764.47

Raid buff with crusader :o
2785AP = 1253.25
Crit = 2757.15
Enraged = 3446.43
DW TOO! = 4135.72

Its similar to the ZHC/ToEP/PoM macro's

something along the lines of

/use inventoryslot(13);
/script StopCasting();
/use inventoryslot(14);
/script StopCasting();
/cast Bloodthirst(Rank 4);

(I just made this up it is not the exact syntax and might not even be the right commands just a rough example)

Edit: You will still have to click on this macro, it won't do it automatically when the proc comes up.

I see. This is what i was interesed in.


And what about fury build with two-hander ? Is it better DPS than dual wielding or what ?

Over time? I couldn't tell you, but it would be largely based on your weapons. You'd hit harder with WW/Overpower, but at the cost of rage generation, among other things. That was just a little exercise I made to simulate a dual trinket mage scenario for warriors in case anyone wanted to test it out.

I think even I can field this one.

No.

Simply by virtue of rage generation, 2H Fury can never beat out DW because DW will return some Rage in the form of off hand hits even if every main hand attack is a Cleave/Heroic Strike, whereas 2H will require some white hits to go through in order to generate any rage at all. Admittedly, Windfury makes the argument for 2H fury stronger for Horde than it is for Alliance, as it guarentees some white damage, but it's still no where near as Rage efficient or productive as DW.

The point of what XI is saying is that the obscene Bloodthirsts possible with The Untamed Blade's proc are...umm...obscene. But considering I'm trying to lower my threat/damage ratio, I don't really want all that many obscene crits, so I'm not sure it's really what I'm looking for.

I'm pretty sure Fury 2H can equal or even surpass 2H MS for PvE DPS, but if it can do it with a lower threat/damage ratio, I'm far less sure.

For me personally, it's worth pointing out that I'm pretty much locked in for our first Ashkandi drop, almost whether I like it or not. And I'm not sure there's a man alive with the willpower to use Ashkandi without MS/Sword Spec.

Dual weilding/fury doesn't seem that great, at least horde side since windfury doesn't affect your offhand.

Chocula specced fury after he got an edge of chaos, and was offhanding that with lobotimizer and eventually concluded that compared to 2h/arms it was slightly superior against single targets when you don't have windfury, slightly inferior when you do have windfury, and significantly inferior against multiple targets.

Dual weilding might improve more as you get access to more +hit and more +attack power, but when you compare it to an arms build that can do almost as much damage in any situation, more damage against multiple targets, and provide a debuff that makes a number of pve fights a lot easier, fury doesn't seem that attractive to me.

Rage dump using slam dual wielding? w-hat?

2h means 2 handed ruro.

Crauch is DW fury spec with shitty, shitty weapons.


Argument over, DW wins. GG.

Deathbringer/PB is not shitty.

nvm i didn't read right. Also DW > 2h for fury, end of story.

Do you listen to warrior alts that out DPS you? :)

:iceburn: