Melthu

To expand on Rannasha's post, it is intended for tanks to lose their crit immunity while affected by Unbalancing Strikes. Tel brought up the possibility that this wouldn't work properly on druid tanks due to our unique method of gaining crit immunity, so I posted a log to show that we do lose crit immunity as expected and intended.

@Plea, are you confusing Chain Lightning with Lightning Charge? As far as I'm aware there is no way to anticipate Chain Lightning.

 

Cryect

DPS requirements, the more movement the less DPS so the more people you can get in melee range to avoid having to move from blizzard the better. Could have rangee in melee range stacked on each other but ends up being better with melee due to AOE damage reduction and more HP in general. As well, whenever people have to move is when people will most likely get too close to others (oh the fun of coordinating movements in hectic situations).

Pretty sure the chain lightnings were more common than the charges so not sure if they really have a pattern, but I can't check logs at the moment to verify (seem to recall my addon was spamming to raid chat a chain lightning path every 5-10 seconds whereas the charge is every 15 seconds but wasn't trying to look for a pattern so maybe there was one).

I need to do something useless.

 

• Daboran

Yeh forget me, should put brain in gear before posting.

 

Kumar

So, we have put in a few attempts on Thorim, I was wondering with the raid stacking up in the center for the arena part how do you deal with Stormhammer (especially the 75% slow cast debuff)?

 

Himmel

Either healing through or moving healers just few steps away from the clump of players. Whirlwinds are far more dangerous for them generally.

The only thing that sustains one through life is the consciousness of the immense inferiority of everybody else, and this is a feeling that I have always cultivated.

Oscar Wilde, "The Remarkable Rocket"

 

Howl

The stormhammer didn't really seem to cause any problems for us in the arena. The healers in the arena are usually spread out around the melee about 5-8 yards away from the center area so only one gets hit at a time. The slowing debuff itself doesn't last very long and when other healers get the debuff I try to pick up their slack (myself being a resto druid). We didn't assign anyone to disarm / stun or assign tanks to anything in particular. I basically told the tanks to just pick everything up and for the melee to aoe (we had two rogues, one assigned to each tank for fan of knives tricks of the trade which helped tremendously).

I think our gauntlet group had 10-11. 2 tanks, 2-3 heals, rest dps. Arena had 2 tanks, 4 heals, rest dps. Dps were separated via physical and magical like everyone else.

I think the most important thing aside from having good arena tanks was quick reactive heals in the arena. The melee group would tend to lose 50-60% of their health at a time from whirlwind, and healing that up quickly / covering tank healing when other healers were stunned won it for us I think.

 

Goto

Some nice points here, thanks guys, we have the gauntlet / arena phase nailed down now . . . arena team clump up, single target down elites and aoe the rest, out composition for those interested was:

Arena - 2 tanks, 4healers, 9dps.
Gauntlet - 2 tanks, 3healers, 5dps.

Now we reached the final phase with thorim in the arena a few times but it seems alot harder than the "phase 3 = kill that I have read". I think our DPS is just too low, does anyone know how many stacks it takes before your tank will just be unhealabe (this is the stacking debuff on thorim NOT unblancing strike im talking about), looking for some idea of a timer in which you need to of killed him. Guessing we could cut down on 1 tank and 1 healer to boost DPS, thanks for help.

 

Lucinde

The soft enrage with the stacking debuff doesn't seem too rough to me. If anything, chain lightning will be ripping your melee apart before the tank(s) become unhealable.

The guy's got 15 million hitpoints and with 14 dps (which is admittedly low) doing ~4k each (again, low) it shouldn't take you more than 4 minutes to kill it. Thorim phase 2 is almost as static as Patchwerk.

How long are you taking on the gauntlet? Do people die?

 

Goto

Usually finishing gauntlet after 4 mins or so, easily within the timers, tempted to drop 1 tank + 1 healer from gauntlet, do abit of cc there.

EDIT: Normally no deaths on gauntlet and maybe 1-2 in arena when final phase starts.

EDIT 2: From your estimation of 4 mins the stack will have reached 16 meaning 320% increased dmg, is that still healable at that time?

 

Gunn

Has anyone else noted that the Adds in the arena seem to always go to the person furthest out from the center? There is definitely some strange mechanic at work. I was testing it last night and it seemed the more adds that were on the floor the less likely they came to me or the other tank. Incidentally we tested this outside the ring theory with a healer, mage, and tanks.

Furthest person from the middle (or ring in the middle of the floor) had the new adds pathing straight for them regardless of player class.

 

Melthu

In my experience that's right around the time that his tank damage becomes unhealable if you get an unlucky Unbalance Strike/melee swing combo in under 0.5 seconds. Of course, if he's not dead at that point he should be close and you can chain cooldowns to keep your tanks alive. However, as stated above his raid damage will start 1-shotting dps and healers, so if he's still above 15% or so 4 minutes in you'll probably lose too many people to attrition to finish him off.

If you're looking for ways to fit more dps into your raid we've found no reason at all to use 2 tanks in the gauntlet. Swapping him for a dps in the arena might help you eliminate deaths in this phase of the fight and let you face Thorim with a full raid consistently.

 

Norie

Thorim Hallway

Has anyone had the First Mini-boss charge a player and also melee them as well before going back to the tank when fighting him? We've had this happen a few times in the hallway and it is always instant death for them. I am not sure if this is just a fluke however it happened almost every other attempt for us.

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

 

Jebraltar

Two healers is a good plan for the gauntlet, but two mages is a lot more useful than two tanks. (One mage would also be fine. The melee adds at the start are the only really threatening ones.) Not sure how you could end up with enough DPS to clear the gauntlet but not enough for a kill, to be honest, unless people are dying early to silly things. (IE: chaining chain lightning too much, eating lightning charges)

 

Danzig

We've finally got the hallway down. We added a third healer since we dont need that much healing in the center, and using two polymorphs for adds on the stairs. Two more will spawn in addition to those two stationary mobs; we burned the healer and offtanked the other while killing the miniboss. Finally >.<

I'd like to ask what peoples setup looks like for phase 2, against Thorim himself.

I was tanking him at the east - which is where hes standing before he jumps down. This caused problems with the lightning charge though. Im not really sure how melees are supposed to deal with the lightning charge. We have them forming two groups, making a triangle with the main tanks to minimize chain lightning damage. Moving for lightning charge ruins the whole point of trying to minimize chain damage. Im not sure if the tank (myself) should be rotating and moving to avoid lightning charge either.

The melee and I could all easily move for lightning charges but then chain lightning will own us all if we get close enough. I was looking for some type of overhead diagram for this fight, but came up with nothing. We also have the classic scenario where people are watching DPS rotations or other peoples health bars (god forbid healers watch health bars) and don't see the lightning charge.

 

wykedtron

So my guild is having problems with thorim because we have too many adds in the arena to deal with. So you have 3 minutes before hard mode, but is there a specific thing you need to do to start it other than getting to thorim before 3 minutes? We often have the people in the gauntlet slowing down because we do not want to have hard mode start. Is there a way to send more people through the gauntlet and get them to thorim without doing hard mode to save the arena (like getting to him before 3 minutes but not activating hard mode)? We general get into a position of having 7-9 elites up in the arena and it becomes way too much.

 

Zaq

It's the same charge/melee sync bug that's been happening for ages. Al'ar & Ignis are two other well known examples of mobs with random charges that liked to melee people right after.

"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali

 

◊ Praetorian

This question perplexes me. Stop for a moment and think through your problem.

You have too much DPS in the hallway, and not enough DPS in the arena. And you're wondering if there's some way to increase hallway DPS? If you aren't worrying about hardmode, keep adding people to the arena group until it's stable and keeping up with the spawns, and then let whoever's left clear the hallway at their own pace.

 

• Snowy

Try standing closer to the golem, and test that out. I noticed that this happened several times on my one 10 man when people were standing at max range, but I don't think I've ever seen it on the other when we were somewhat closer. My theory is that while he charges, his swing timer is likely cooling down. If you're at max range, it's cooled down and he'll melee you.

This may or may not work, it's just a suggestion to try out and a theory of mine.

Paladin: Pyla
Mage: Pylah

 

Norie

That's a good point and actually makes sense. 9 times out of 10 the one that was killed was a hunter and that room is quite small to begin with, when we replaced the hunters with mages as we thought the hunters would be better suited in the arena due to their mobility this didn't happen.

 

wykedtron

I see your point, maybe i need to explain a bit better. We are in horrible shape in both the arena and the hallway. Both are wiping. So we are still in the "finding the right group" setup. I was more interested in how exactly the Hard Mode starts. Door opens and it's under three minutes and hard mode starts? Hit Sif and hard mode Starts? My logic is send more people to the hallway to get the flooding of the arena over as fast as possible buit if all you have to do is get there in under 3 minutes it would backfire.

Also, has anyone tried Mind Nubmbing poison and Crippling poison in the arena with Shockwave? In most successful attempts how many adds are in the arena at a given time? What is considered unacceptable? 5 Mobs? 10 mobs? Balancing the groups is important and I get that but what is the benchmark?

 

◊ Ama

His point is that the hall can be very slow and still beat the time to enrage. So add as many people as required into the arena to stabilize and try it that way.

If your hallway group is wiping, its very likely they are doing it wrong, as we were able to complete it with only 7 people.

 

Renew

Make sure your hallway people are interrupting the heals on the small dwarf caster. If you can't even kill it on easymode, don't worry about hard mode.

For hard mode it's pretty much about being as efficient as possible in the hallway so you can have Thorim jump down before Sif leaves.

Confidence is not Arrogance.

 

Danzig

Argh, I can't remember it off the top of my head, but the rogues can combine something with FoK to counter spells, if your talking about the mobs healing capabilities.

We have mostly melee in the arena, with two casters doing AOE. Our rogues and DK's can AOE pretty decently too so everything dies. The only mobs you really gotta pay attention to are the champions. AOE alone doesnt seem to keep them down. Our melees switch to that whenever one comes out.

As far as the casters, I know I can remove both runic shield or the HoT from them with shield slam. Im like #5 in DPS on this fight from thunderclap, shockwave and cleave spam. Deep wounds spec, popping shield block on the larger packs for sweet return damage. Im also glyphed cleave for this fight, for the extra target hit. Plus if your on a caster, you can bash/conc/HT the heal casts or lightning casts as well. Its alot of fun. =) Next time we go, Im going to wear my darkmoon card since it boosts every ability I use while tanking.

Now, if I could figure out wtf were doing in phase 2.... ugh

 

supplicium

I'll break down the mechanics as every boss timer is technically wrong because the game mechanics them selves are wrong.

You have 2:50 seconds from the time thorim emotes till you have to make it to essentially aggro range of him. You don't touch siff at all, you just have to make it there in that short amount of time

If siff emotes, there is a high likely hood of her actually leaving at the 3:00 min mark. It's kind of buggy like that. she Emotes at 2:50 to do that, the first 10 seconds are gate opening time. I'm not sure how much of that is intended but, we def got to here a few times after she emoted and went to hard mode and several times she just booked it.

Ideally you are far ahead of this timer so no big deal, but on the off chance that's no the case, just try and get there asap.

 

tommynt

May I say that 1 healer in the gaunlet is more then enough?
We had once heal our ele shaman heal all the way to 2nd Boss when our healer died by a onehitting broken sheep.

We usually let 2 or 3 of our 7 healers spec damage as 1 healer in gaunlet and 3 in the Arena is totally enough.
What helped us a lot were 3 Tanks in the Arena and Rouges and Enhencement shamans focusing the healing mobs - without mobs getting healed and with 1 more Tank to catch new incoming mobs bombers have a real easy time and with enough damage the fight is pretty much trivial.

In fact this is the only fight were I can see a slim chance for our casual guild to do the hard mode.

Bzt seeing how good DKs are in this fight - huge AoE damage combined with hitting single target and platte wearing I can see stacking them for hard mode.