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Old 02/06/06, 5:57 PM   #1
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
1) Can Broodlord's MS crit? I've heard different things.

2) Onyxia: does her Wing Buffet have a significant deaggro? This hasn't mattered to us in months of killing her, but our guild tried to 2-group her for the first time last week (20-22 people). We had a mysterious aggro loss in phase 3 (a very undermanned P3, due to a bad transition). I'm sure you figured out exactly how her aggro works for the 10-man run.

3) Is there yet any mob in the game that can crit against 440 defense?

4) "Healing strategy:" Hypothetically, say you had 16 intelligent people who knew the game and their class well, but had never played a healer in a 40-man raid. They were to play (on well-geared characters) your healing crew for your next BWL raid (or hell, even an MC clear). How would you have them organize themselves?

5) How do I use Thottbot to try to find the properties of spells? For example, I search "Knock away," and I get a bunch of level 20 spells, none of which mentions a threat reduction.


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Old 02/06/06, 6:00 PM   #2
♦ Praetorian
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1) Yes but BWL tanks get crit very rarely.
2) Yes it's a %-based deaggro like the BWL drakes' Wing Buffet.
3) No.
4) Explain what you mean by "organize."
5) Deaggros are never visible in the MPQs, sorry. Thott is good for finding out the damage and range of abilities, or their casting time where applicable, but it won't tell you nearly everything.

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Old 02/06/06, 6:24 PM   #3
 Hamlet
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2) So in a very slow kill like your 10-man, the tank will plateau. I'm assuming this is why you used Hunters for DPS, but how did you avoid healing aggro?

5) Hmm. I thought I remembered you once using some kind of Thottbot link to show the threat-reductive quality of Burning Adrenaline.

4) Well, depending on what you're doing, some number of tanks have to be healed, and miscellaneous raid members need healing. And you have to find some kind of balance between having everyone heal whomever needs it most (which leads to horrible coorindation) and having everyone choose a target or set of targets (at the expense of ignoring other people). Basically, I always get on our healers for being kind of unorganized (basically FFA healing with CTRA), and they can get kind of defensive about it. I'm trying to figure out how set up reasonable healing crew.

For example, I get kind of annoyed when I'm at low HP, and then 2 seconds later I get 6 heals while the guy next to me dies. Or on Broodlord, where 5 to 6 people can potentially have aggro during the fight, you have to strike a balance between having the entire healing crew try to follow him around, and having them divide up and focus on tanks, with each group only worrying about their own target. I have absolutely no idea what's the bext way to set it up.


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Old 02/06/06, 6:50 PM   #4
Kaubel
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It all depends on the fight. If you're clearing trash, make people responsible for their groups only. If it's a boss, some examples might be:
- one healer per group in charge of that group
- a few healers in charge of keeping the main tank up
- a few healers watching emergency monitor and spot healing
- a few healers in charge of healing certain classes (like rogues or warriors)
- a priest in charge of shielding the MT
- etc.

Originally Posted by Lyta View Post
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.

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Old 02/06/06, 7:39 PM   #5
Zellyn
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Originally Posted by Arawethion,February 6th, 2006 @ 6:24PM
5) Hmm. I thought I remembered you once using some kind of Thottbot link to show the threat-reductive quality of Burning Adrenaline.
That would be this, but I don't think it reduces existing hate, only hate gained from that moment on. Also, it may just be blatantly wrong since there are five other entries under "Burning Adrenaline."

<08-07-09 02:09>[Velth] This is the behavior of a benefactor of the EJ forums?

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Old 02/06/06, 7:50 PM   #6
♦ Praetorian
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2) Yes. Onyxia wipes aggro when she flies, so we got her to take off before the plateau became a major issue. In Phase 3, Raylen (priest) irrevocably got aggro and died at 11% or so. Plateau. In retrospect, if I could do it again, I'd have the healers take turns intentionally getting tail swept (pro strat).

5) Yes, threat modifiers on various abilities will show. Search for "Defensive Stance" or "Dire Bear" or "Blessing of Salvation" or whatever. BA has a -% threat modifier component, which is thus visible. But you never see stuff like how much threat Broodlord's knockback removes, or how much threat Wrath of Ragnaros removes.

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Old 02/06/06, 8:09 PM   #7
Elerion
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Originally Posted by Kaubel,February 6th, 2006 @ 6:50PM
It all depends on the fight. If you're clearing trash, make people responsible for their groups only. If it's a boss, some examples might be:
- one healer per group in charge of that group
- a few healers in charge of keeping the main tank up
- a few healers watching emergency monitor and spot healing
- a few healers in charge of healing certain classes (like rogues or warriors)
- a priest in charge of shielding the MT
- etc.
Also, in situations where concentration may not be perfect, like trashclearing, I would advise the healers to make a hotkey for "target #1 on Emergency Monitor", and hit that and a heal whenever their group is at full hp, while still keeping an eye on their group. It helps pick up the slack from the other healers.

In some places where aggro is very sporadic and healers frequently go out of mana, like when clearing to Broodlord, there's really no real substitute for people paying attention and being able to decide in the spur of the moment who to heal.

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Old 02/06/06, 8:13 PM   #8
♦ Praetorian
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Originally Posted by Elerion,February 6th, 2006 @ 8:09PM
Also, in situations where concentration may not be perfect, like trashclearing, I would advise the healers to make a hotkey for "target #1 on Emergency Monitor", and hit that and a heal whenever their group is at full hp, while still keeping an eye on their group.
I don't think you realize what you've just gotten yourself into. This is a hot-button topic among our healers lately. :P

Personally, I will start to care about overhealing just as soon as we start losing fights due to going OOM, but some healers in the guild feel differently.

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Old 02/06/06, 10:10 PM   #9
Graham
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Yea, if I were running my own little pet guild I'd split healers into twos and threes and make them responsible for mashing a button bound to a different EM slot. Then I'd divide them up further for timeliness (priests have mages and warlocks on thier EM, shaman everyone, druids Warriors and Hunters and other healers). And of course some from each class on the MTs.

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Old 02/07/06, 12:26 AM   #10
Greybone
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Originally Posted by Elerion,February 7th, 2006 @ 2:09AM
Also, in situations where concentration may not be perfect, like trashclearing, I would advise the healers to make a hotkey for "target #1 on Emergency Monitor", and hit that and a heal whenever their group is at full hp, while still keeping an eye on their group.
I want you to take a good look at this screenshot and guess where I was on the emergency monitor. I have more than 6000 hitpoints, and died without getting a single heal.

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Old 02/07/06, 1:20 AM   #11
Lord BEEF
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They've changed mob mortal strike several times. I believe it was possible for Broodlord to crit it at some point, though I don't know if it still can. There's one screenshot where he crits a warrior for just over 7000, but that would make the non-crit damage only about 3500, which is considerably lower than what he normally hits a tank for, and leads me to believe this screenshot was most likely taken when broodlord's mortal strike did gimp damage. They then adjusted it and the behavior of mob mortal strike overall.

I did some testing with scourge champions in East Plaguelands, level 60 non elites that mortal strike about every 10 seconds. I let one beat on me for 15+ minutes straight, and it landed plenty of regular attacks as criticals, but never a mortal strike critical. I did the testing with 300 defense, so it should have crit 5% of the time.

Obviously they're not the same as broodlord, but it would seem odd that they can't crit a mortal strike, but broodlord can, and there's only been one screenshot of broodlord critting.

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Old 02/07/06, 5:00 AM   #12
 Hamlet
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I don't think you realize what you've just gotten yourself into. This is a hot-button topic among our healers lately.

Personally, I will start to care about overhealing just as soon as we start losing fights due to going OOM, but some healers in the guild feel differently.
This is similar to what I'm running into. Example: is there any good reason for people to be using auto-cancel healing mods?

Yea, if I were running my own little pet guild I'd split healers into twos and threes and make them responsible for mashing a button bound to a different EM slot.
What's the rationale here? Just to make sure that, say, the #3 lowest-HP person doesn't die a few seconds later? But if you're organizing the healing this well to begin with, wouldn't that person have a healer specifically watching him (or his group) to begin with?

I want you to take a good look at this screenshot and guess where I was on the emergency monitor. I have more than 6000 hitpoints, and died without getting a single heal.
Maybe I'm too tired to be really perceptive, but what are you really getting at here? That you were #1, and nobody was bothering to check the EM? Or that you were #2 and got no heals because of it?


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Old 02/07/06, 6:05 AM   #13
Runnybabbit
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Originally Posted by Arawethion,February 7th, 2006 @ 5:00AM
Maybe I'm too tired to be really perceptive, but what are you really getting at here? That you were #1, and nobody was bothering to check the EM? Or that you were #2 and got no heals because of it?
I'm guessing the latter, myself. I think it's his healers that were #2, though.

Yuck, yuck.

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Old 02/07/06, 6:55 AM   #14
Cadmus
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Originally Posted by Runnybabbit,February 7th, 2006 @ 6:05AM
Originally Posted by Arawethion,February 7th, 2006 @ 5:00AM
Maybe I'm too tired to be really perceptive, but what are you really getting at here? That you were #1, and nobody was bothering to check the EM? Or that you were #2 and got no heals because of it?
I'm guessing the latter, myself. I think it's his healers that were #2, though.

Yuck, yuck.
Edenist and Allanon are both mages; I think it's just a matter of healer habit to look at the mage bars first in AE situations because they're usually going down faster :(

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Old 02/07/06, 9:31 AM   #15
Graham
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Undead Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Arawethion,February 7th, 2006 @ 5:00AM
What's the rationale here? Just to make sure that, say, the #3 lowest-HP person doesn't die a few seconds later?
The rationale is that way too many people heal EM#1 or occasionally #2. Split it up into areas of actual responsibility, further split it up onto healers who can heal that target fast enough to keep them alive. Have someone to yell at every time.

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