General Vezax - Page 3

Cryect · 05/10/09, 11:39 AM

Was one of the first theories we came up with and having a warlock only DD spells on them still caused the issue. Location seemed to be the issue with the room though haven't really experimented much to determine if its caused by the unevenness of the floor else than there seemed to be more of an issue towards the center of the room (where its more uneven) but that is pretty anecdotal evidence.

Harwin · 05/11/09, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Cryect

Was one of the first theories we came up with and having a warlock only DD spells on them still caused the issue. Location seemed to be the issue with the room though haven't really experimented much to determine if its caused by the unevenness of the floor else than there seemed to be more of an issue towards the center of the room (where its more uneven) but that is pretty anecdotal evidence.

It could be that pools close to the boss (whom we tanked in the center of the room) don't work? This would prevent healers from avoiding shadow crash entirely while standing in them, so that's a potential reason it could have been done deliberately.

We certainly noticed that there seemed to be a correlation between being close to the boss and not working, although I don't know if that's 100%. Since we tank him in the center, it could also be location based since you got a center problem as well.

Machinator · 05/11/09, 7:58 PM

From wowwiki, not exactly a concrete source but it probably came from somewhere.

The Saronite Pools will return 0 mana if Vezax is within 15 yards the players in the pool. For the pool to return mana/deal damage, the player must be outside the Shadow Crash "dead zone".

With people spread out into groups, have there been issues with one side of the room not getting enough vapors? Or healers being kept from healing by marks, more of a 10m problem when there aren't any backups.

vorda · 05/11/09, 8:05 PM

Originally Posted by Machinator

From wowwiki, not exactly a concrete source but it probably came from somewhere.

With people spread out into groups, have there been issues with one side of the room not getting enough vapors? Or healers being kept from healing by marks, more of a 10m problem when there aren't any backups.

This is false, I've had a 10m kill yesterday where the tank (me) put the boss in the vapors, so healers are in melee range.

Sillia · 05/12/09, 1:07 AM

Originally Posted by vorda

This is false, I've had a 10m kill yesterday where the tank (me) put the boss in the vapors, so healers are in melee range.

Concur. I tanked Vezax next to the vapors last Saturday, and the healers were doing just fine with it.

How are non-warrior tanks kiting Vezax during the surge? Or are they just tanking him straight through it? I've found that even with the surge's snare, he runs faster than I do with the boot speed enchant. Do you expect a priest with Body and Soul?

Pyros · 05/12/09, 2:02 AM

Originally Posted by Sillia

Concur. I tanked Vezax next to the vapors last Saturday, and the healers were doing just fine with it.

How are non-warrior tanks kiting Vezax during the surge? Or are they just tanking him straight through it? I've found that even with the surge's snare, he runs faster than I do with the boot speed enchant. Do you expect a priest with Body and Soul?

You just need to run sooner. I rarely get hit, rarely meaning I do still get hit sometimes, but I'd say 1 out of 15kite phases or so I get hit once, most of the time due to my own mistakes(not moving fast enough, not being at full max range before the surge starts casting, fat fingering my mouse turn and not running straight or getting stuck in one of the crappy holes in the ground). Getting hit once is no big deal either, at least as a DK I can just Runetap while running, pop a potion/healthstone if needed, and when he's done with Surge I usually pop my IBF then when repositionning to give healers time. Obviously I could just tank through it, but at least for easy mode, it seems unnecessary to put additional strain on the healers.

He definitely runs slower than you, but the first steps tend to be a bit weird because mobs in motion hit from a bigger range and his size increases when he gains the debuff, so his hitbox also increases. After that though it's easy to notice he runs slower, especially when the debuff drops and he comes zipping at you at full speed. You can use a priest, but that requires no shielding 15secs prior to next surge and the priest being in range, so shouldn't rely on it. If your other tanks can't do it, either use a warrior intervening out or a DK IBF tanking it, those are the easy ways to deal with it.

Vellvette · 05/12/09, 2:07 AM

My guild had our first try on 25m General V tonight, and since I was one of 3 healers in our 10m attempts, I explained it to the other 4 (total of 7 healers). We decided to try to split up the healers on the MT, 3 at first until they ran oom, 3 others after that, with 1 healing the mana users getting into the vapors for mana regen. When the first 3 started healing, the other 4 were spotting just incase the 3 were having issues of whatever kind. Of course that was the plan at first. The first 3 healers' mana was great for quite some time. I ended up calling the switch on healer groups almost immediately after the first Surge of Darkness. But we ended up having to use nearly all the healers when we got to about 40% (unfortunately with the boss getting heals), and burning vapors every 30 seconds to 1 minute because of everyone getting really low. I'm here to ask on a healers perspective: managing 7 healers and making sure we always have heals on the tank, how should this be done? Is splitting up the heals like this ok to do?

Also, after the kiting from Surge of Darkness, is it suggested that the tank stay in the spot that he ends up or move him back to the middle?

Thanks!

Muggins · 05/12/09, 2:54 AM

Originally Posted by Sillia

How are non-warrior tanks kiting Vezax during the surge? Or are they just tanking him straight through it? I've found that even with the surge's snare, he runs faster than I do with the boot speed enchant. Do you expect a priest with Body and Soul?

I tend to back up slowly while tanking him in place until i'm at his max hit range, then when the cast comes start immediately legging it(it helps if you have an audio queue for this, that is if you can hear it over sara screaming her sodding head off every 2 minutes). Once out of the 'danger area' of about 10-15 yrds i switch into unholy presence for the movement speed increase if i have the runes available as it helps to edit your new position on the fly if you spot anything that might cause problems(namely healers getting marked on the position you're running to, getting knocked back by shadow crash while on the move, etc). Obviously if your DK tank is specced unholy he doesn't have to worry about any of this because the smarmy bugger always moves at 15% speed increase as long as he's picked up IUP. A lot of the time you'll find you don't even need this because he'll pause to cast flames or throw a couple of shadow crashes around, giving you plenty of breathing room as long as you can get moving fast enough at the start.

Regarding his position: really it depends on what is happening in the fight, i tend to run him from one side of the room to the other mostly depending on where available saronite vapours are and then sit him in place, however you shouldn't be afraid to reposition him once he's finished running if it means your healers will be able to access a saronite cloud more easily.

Sardaukar · 05/12/09, 4:00 AM

We got our first 25 man kill on him tonight after a simple change in strategy: We switched from our normal warrior MT to a DK tank. Icebound fortitude was enough to enable the DK to easily survive each Surge and without the need to kite the boss, the fight got much simpler. Removing that big variable made the fight far easier and he went down on I believe the first (maybe second) pull of DK tanking. 2x 3 healer teams rotating - one standing on top of the melee and doing all of the MT and raid healing with the other team mana'ing up in saronite patches.

LittleHamster · 05/12/09, 4:11 AM

We use a druid tank and not kite. It's much easier than any kiting strategy, for both healers and melee interrupters. (This is in 25m, so must be doable in 10 too).

Hodor · 05/12/09, 6:53 AM

Originally Posted by Vellvette

My guild had our first try on 25m General V tonight, and since I was one of 3 healers in our 10m attempts, I explained it to the other 4 (total of 7 healers). We decided to try to split up the healers on the MT, 3 at first until they ran oom, 3 others after that, with 1 healing the mana users getting into the vapors for mana regen. When the first 3 started healing, the other 4 were spotting just incase the 3 were having issues of whatever kind. Of course that was the plan at first. The first 3 healers' mana was great for quite some time. I ended up calling the switch on healer groups almost immediately after the first Surge of Darkness. But we ended up having to use nearly all the healers when we got to about 40% (unfortunately with the boss getting heals), and burning vapors every 30 seconds to 1 minute because of everyone getting really low. I'm here to ask on a healers perspective: managing 7 healers and making sure we always have heals on the tank, how should this be done? Is splitting up the heals like this ok to do?

We simply have all healers in melee range. That way our ranged camps always get their shadow crashes (and the curse), while the healers can concentrate entirely on healing (using stopcasting to save mana). After every surge, the DK pulls in one Vapor and kills it right next to the General, so that all healers can get mana without worrying about being bunched up and getting a curse or a shadow crash since they are in melee range.

khel · 05/12/09, 7:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hodor

We simply have all healers in melee range. That way our ranged camps always get their shadow crashes (and the curse), while the healers can concentrate entirely on healing (using stopcasting to save mana). After every surge, the DK pulls in one Vapor and kills it right next to the General, so that all healers can get mana without worrying about being bunched up and getting a curse or a shadow crash since they are in melee range.

That's fine until your casters need mana. If too many are in melee range then shadow crashes and marks start happening in melee range, which can wipe you pretty easily.

Frozenn · 05/12/09, 8:31 AM

Originally Posted by Sillia

Concur. I tanked Vezax next to the vapors last Saturday, and the healers were doing just fine with it.

How are non-warrior tanks kiting Vezax during the surge? Or are they just tanking him straight through it? I've found that even with the surge's snare, he runs faster than I do with the boot speed enchant. Do you expect a priest with Body and Soul?

In 10 man I simply run as a paladin with pursuit of justice. Got hit once, because I started running too late. Just need to stand at the edge of his hitbox, and start running as soon as he casts.

vorda · 05/12/09, 8:33 AM

Originally Posted by khel

That's fine until your casters need mana. If too many are in melee range then shadow crashes and marks start happening in melee range, which can wipe you pretty easily.

Not that hard to communicate about stuff like this though. Just make sure your casters know when they are allowed to use clouds.

Exemplar · 05/12/09, 9:12 AM

Hearing conflicting reports about Shadow Resistance on this fight. Both that it's very very bad (you can full resist Saronite Vapor and get no regen) and that it's useful (you can partial/full resist Saronite Vapor damage but the debuff still applies and generates mana).

Right now I'm applying the Razuvious method (SR Aura applied to MCed Understudies, who then had increased heartbeat resist checks) - telling everyone not to use any SR (barring Druid Gift). I'd love to know if it's safe - reduced/resisted damage from people who Can't Run™ from Shadow Crash and during the mana regen will obviously make it easier on general raid healing, which probably means axe a healer for another DPS and a faster fight.

Anyone know for sure whether SR buffs (aura and prayer) are safe?

Note: I can at least rule this out as cause of buggy Vapor. We're only running with Gift, still have no-regen Vapor and when it occurs no one gets any regen on that Vapor, even if they hop in and out multiple times. This guarantees bad Vapor is more than just SR issues (assuming SR chance for no Vapor debuff is even true). I must say, it's terribly frustrating to have a buggy mechanic which is so integral to a fight - we had 3 failed vapor out of 5 on a single attempt.