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Old 05/12/09, 11:21 AM   #46
• Melthu
Confused
 
Troll Druid
 
Alterac Mountains
Kiting as a druid tank is trivial, just shift to cat form and run pretty much anywhere you want. You can actually build enough distance to stop and Rebirth someone if they're in your kite path.

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Old 05/12/09, 11:36 AM   #47
Silmeria
I am a nice guy
 
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Silmeriah
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Exemplar View Post
Hearing conflicting reports about Shadow Resistance on this fight. Both that it's very very bad (you can full resist Saronite Vapor and get no regen) and that it's useful (you can partial/full resist Saronite Vapor damage but the debuff still applies and generates mana).
Shadow Resist effects are fine. I wore an extra SR piece so I could push the 8th tick without (hopefully) dying on our first kill. Kind of a crutch for when you're going for hard mode though, so I wouldn't really recommend it for the long-term.

  0:04'46.969	Silmeriah is afflicted by Saronite Vapors (4).
  0:04'49.031	Silmeriah gains 1600 Mana from nil Saronite Vapors.
  0:04'49.031	nil Saronite Vapors hits Silmeriah for 2240 Shadow. (960 Resisted)	
  0:04'49.031	Silmeriah is afflicted by Saronite Vapors (5).
  0:04'51.016	Silmeriah gains 3200 Mana from nil Saronite Vapors.	
  0:04'51.016	nil Saronite Vapors hits Silmeriah for 5120 Shadow. (1280 Resisted)	
  0:04'51.031	Silmeriah is afflicted by Saronite Vapors (6).	
  0:04'52.984	Silmeriah gains 6400 Mana from nil Saronite Vapors.	
  0:04'52.984	nil Saronite Vapors hits Silmeriah for 9204 Shadow. (1280 Resisted) (2316 Absorbed)	
  0:04'52.984	Silmeriah is afflicted by Saronite Vapors (7).	
  0:04'54.984	Silmeriah gains 12800 Mana from nil Saronite Vapors.
  0:04'54.984	nil Saronite Vapors hits Silmeriah for 15360 Shadow. (10240 Resisted)	#591860

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Old 05/12/09, 11:47 AM   #48
 Birdemani
Everybody knows that the bird is the word
 
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Birdemani
Orc Warrior
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Sillia View Post
How are non-warrior tanks kiting Vezax during the surge? Or are they just tanking him straight through it? I've found that even with the surge's snare, he runs faster than I do with the boot speed enchant. Do you expect a priest with Body and Soul?
Every tank has an escape method to gain ground while kiting. Intervene (or intercept a vapor), Unholy Presence, kitty sprint, and Pursuit of Justice. Body and Soul is there for the moments something goes wrong, or you can have a hunter Pack you out during cast time. It's a non-issue for good tanks.

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Old 05/12/09, 12:57 PM   #49
LucidityAxel
Piston Honda
 
Troll Priest
 
Tichondrius
A DK tank gives you the option of using Icebound Fortitude on every surge instead kiting the boss. This tremendously simplifies the fight -- we one-shot him the very first time we tried it.

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Old 05/12/09, 1:04 PM   #50
Harwin
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Mannoroth
It doesn't take very many cooldowns on any tank to survive. DK tanks obviously can do it themselves.

We used a warrior tank and with his enrage timer at 10 minutes, you've only got to survive 9 of those buffs(if the fight goes that long) 5 of them (#1, #3, #5, #7, and #9) can be dealt with by Shield Wall.
The other 4, the warrior pops his other cooldowns and either Pain Suppression, Guardian Spirit, or the pally buff (I'm sorry, I forget the name) covers it. It's obviously more complicated than a DK, but you've got 2 minutes in between ones healers need to help on, and we just call out in advance which healer is going to be responsible this time (or whether the tank is going to just shield wall it)

Edit:
Once we did that Searing Flames was the only issue. Kiting him just makes that harder. We also ended up asking our Enh. Shaman to stop using Earth Shock in his rotation. It hurt his DPS but he'd screw up the kick timing of the rogues since he'd lock-out only for 2 seconds. The rogue kicking seemed to get much better after that.

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Old 05/12/09, 3:58 PM   #51
Mideci
Great Tiger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Harwin View Post
The other 4, the warrior pops his other cooldowns and either Pain Suppression, Guardian Spirit, or the pally buff (I'm sorry, I forget the name) covers it.
Hand of Sacrifice is what it's called.

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Old 05/12/09, 4:06 PM   #52
norikk
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Gurubashi
Why would you not kite the boss, except maybe for the 1st surge when the tank is trying to get a good hold on aggro? Kiting reduces immensely the damage you take since every minute you can spend 15s not getting hit at all. Kiting surges offers 25% less damage taken when compared to a strategy that uses a DK tanking with IBF all the fight. Healer positioning is not an issue because you can safely kite between two predefined positions, with healers standing in the middle.

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Old 05/12/09, 5:38 PM   #53
Mideci
Great Tiger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Stormrage
Having only done this with a fixed-position tank, the answer I'd say is that healing is very light anyway, especially if your ranged is avoiding the shadow crashes and you are interrupting the flames. So this just lets everyone more or less get into position and stay in position.

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Old 05/12/09, 7:14 PM   #54
Gofa
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Priest
 
Aman'Thul (EU)
Basically it's the same with Emalon. You just heal your tank through the nova instead of letting him run out and in again (at least on our server).
Of course you're right that kiting should reduce damage taken. But your tank, your healers or your interrupts could mess the kiting phase up ending probably in a wipe.
In my opinion a static fight is always easier and hey, cooldowns are there to be used.

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Old 05/12/09, 8:52 PM   #55
Tojara
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Bonechewer
It's fairly safe to say that kiting or standing still are both perfectly acceptable methods when doing this boss on normal mode. There is no urgency to conserve mana, positioning is easier and the fight is far simplified if you stand in one position.

The hard mode is another beast all together, as ~15 seconds where the tank isn't taking damage would be absolutely necessary to save as much mana as possible. Using this method a DK for example would be free to keep his defensive abilities on CD during normal phases, which would thus lower the amount of healing needed.

Can the discussion please move on from kiting and or standing still?

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Old 05/13/09, 12:20 PM   #56
Giske
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
The hard mode is another beast all together, as ~15 seconds where the tank isn't taking damage would be absolutely necessary to save as much mana as possible. Using this method a DK for example would be free to keep his defensive abilities on CD during normal phases, which would thus lower the amount of healing needed.
It is not absolutely necessary when it has been beaten on hard mode without the use of kiting. Both methods are viable for both modes of the fight.

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Old 05/13/09, 12:28 PM   #57
• Snowy
Mitt Romney?
 
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Blood Elf Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
It's fairly safe to say that kiting or standing still are both perfectly acceptable methods when doing this boss on normal mode. There is no urgency to conserve mana, positioning is easier and the fight is far simplified if you stand in one position.

The hard mode is another beast all together, as ~15 seconds where the tank isn't taking damage would be absolutely necessary to save as much mana as possible. Using this method a DK for example would be free to keep his defensive abilities on CD during normal phases, which would thus lower the amount of healing needed.

Can the discussion please move on from kiting and or standing still?
The tradeoff is that by keeping the boss still you increase DPS, which makes the fight shorter. It's a valid discussion.

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Old 05/13/09, 2:44 PM   #58
Mideci
Great Tiger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Stormrage
Furthermore, I'm a little curious what else about the fight is worth discussing. Strategically, you want your ranged dps to be spread out some distance from the boss so that no one gets hit by shadow crash and yet people can quickly get to the residue to dps from it. That much seems obvious.

I suppose one can argue about where to put the healers, altho it seems fairly obvious that melee range is safer with no discernable downside other than a guarantee they have to move in order to pick up the cloud residues.

This fight reminds me a lot of Void Reaver, of all things: There is a core mechanic that has a lot of people running around, but the fewer people you can get by with running around, the better off you are.

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Old 05/13/09, 3:13 PM   #59
Torrential
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Mideci View Post
a guarantee they have to move in order to pick up the cloud residues.
Death grip the clouds to Vezax.

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Old 05/13/09, 3:55 PM   #60
Fabinas
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Has anyone tried the [Darkmoon Card: Illusion] on Vezax? Would be nice to know if the triggered mana effect works on this fight.

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