We've been using the 3 tank, raid at the door, shuttling adds to the center approach for Phase 1. We have been sucessfull doing this, but are running into dps issues in Phase 3. If we wanted to drop down to two tanks, how viable would a dps specced/geared DK in frost prescence be for taunting the adds to the middle?
Our Arms warrior pulled aggro in P1 last week and immediately put a shield on and tanked it all the way to the center for the kill. Healing him was trivial.
My guild uses 2 tanks in 25's and it works fine, I doubt you'll experience any difficulties.
I don't know how well this translates, but I solo tank it each week in 10's on my Paladin. With 2 Healers and 7 DPS, the fight is fairly trivial.
Has anyone completed the "He's Not Getting Any Older" achievement? What does it suggest? has anyone reached P3 with only 2 Brain Phases? We managed to get the brain to 38% after 2 Brain Phases last week but that's still pushing it...
Would you find more success forcing a large number of spawns during P1 and rushing to P2 as soon as possible? The idea of 2 Combat Spec Rogues spamming Improved FoK whilst the tanks blow their CD's and tank 8-9 adds in the center and having them all AoE'd down 15 seconds into the fight really appeals to me, but could it really be viable? Is it possible to send 0 healers into the Brain Room and have the DPS stay alive with things such as Divine Sacrifice, Health Stones and Healing Potions? Or is the damage too extreme?
My guild already sends 0 true healers into the brain room. We get by on things like Maelstrom Weapon Chain Heals and Art of War procs along with the above mentioned consumables.
The idea of 2 Combat Spec Rogues spamming Improved FoK whilst the tanks blow their CD's and tank 8-9 adds in the center and having them all AoE'd down 15 seconds into the fight really appeals to me, but could it really be viable?
No, I do not think that can be viable. Not only because 8 exploding adds is an significant amount of damage, but also because of the MC. I think that they are somewhat flexible in casting MC, but you can get very unlucky with MC on too much people (or even the wrong ones), which can wipe you very fast.
Something else you might consider when sending no healers down to the brain is that the only time in which people will take damage down below is in the first 15-20 seconds so giving things like sacred shield, PW:S, regrowth or earth shield to people during the 10s countdown before portals come up couldn't hurt.
Has anyone completed the "He's Not Getting Any Older" achievement? What does it suggest? has anyone reached P3 with only 2 Brain Phases? We managed to get the brain to 38% after 2 Brain Phases last week but that's still pushing it...
You just need to do really well on the visions and get two 35+ second brain phases, it just really requires that you stress it to people that they need to be ready at their portal spots BEFORE they pop. Having the Icecrown scenario really helps, because it's so ridiculously easy to do. One warrior can bladestorm one group down by himself and the rest of us just spread out and spam aoe on the three groups. I think you can manage a 43s brain phase on that one. Besides this though, you also need really good dps and I mean really good. In 10 man, we got him to 35% in one phase.
To get the "He's Not Getting Any Older" achievement, my guess is you need to force many more spawns at start and also to keep it at 2 brain phases at most.
So, I know hardmode discussion is off the table in general, but I can't find a clear answer to this, and I'm fairly sure that it's not the sort of discussion that's meant to be verboten.
On 10 man, how many keepers do you need to abandon to get the improved loot table?
So, I know hardmode discussion is off the table in general, but I can't find a clear answer to this, and I'm fairly sure that it's not the sort of discussion that's meant to be verboten.
On 10 man, how many keepers do you need to abandon to get the improved loot table?
You need to have only one keeper assisting you for hard mode loot.
My guild is currently working on Yogg 25 man Phase 3. There are a laundry list of issues we have between all the phases but here are some I'm curious about.
In phase 2: If our melee team doesn't freeze the brain before the DBM says 40 secs we get another crusher add spawn. This utimitly at any point in the encounter means a wipe in the long run because we can't seem to pick up the dps loss of having the extra adds spawn.
This only happens if they don't kill all the tentacle adds in the brain room before 40 sec mark (20 secs of brain room dps).
Even if this happens only once out of three brain phases we'll end up in phase 3 with to many corrupters up or even a crusher still up. This also doesn't give us enough time to get positioning ready, and like a house of cards... you get the idea.
What are some strategy's guilds are using to get a consistant speedy brain phase? Our first one always is great but the 2nd and 3rd phase is consistently lackluster.
In phase 3: We're trying to work out the most optimal positioning of the immortal guardians tanking location and raid positioning. In our decent phase 3's we were positioning them far from Yogg, with the healers behind me close to the wall and melee + some range dps on them and I felt it wasn't as optimal as it could be.
Since the guardians can spawn from any location in the room except the saronite pool (I believe this was proven somewhere) I think this leaves this phase open to heavy RNG.
If your adds are spawning far away consistently, the travel time they spend just walking to you is lose in DPS. With a hard spawn rate of 10 secs (another fact mentioned somewhere) if they spawn 5-6 secs away from the tanks it bogs the whole phase down.
The alternative to this is, I believe, is tanking them in the saronite pool close to Yogg with most of the healers and melee dps in there as well. I believe it would improve the speed of the pick up, since your closer to all the potential spawn points, improving Immortal dps and yogg dps due to melee AOE. However my question is, does this leave us very open to the beacon heal yogg places on the guardians? I figure if the dps can't kill them fast enough to stop the heal then we're getting overran anyway, but I could be wrong and we haven't had enough solid phase 2's to get a real feel for this method in phase 3.
So the gist (I think) for phase 3: Tanking far = safer but less dps efficient. Tanking closer = more dangerous but more dps efficient.
Has anyone done phase 3 both ways and can comment on both methods?
I'm sorry if there are a lot of questions in here. This fight has had us stumped for weeks now and I'm becoming very puzzled as to why it feel so RNG. Phase 3 confuses me so much as well. It is suppose to be the easier phase but those guardians come so fast, and I feel like picking them all up, tanking them and burning them all down is extremely challenging (as a tank).
In phase 2: If our melee team doesn't freeze the brain before the DBM says 40 secs we get another crusher add spawn. This utimitly at any point in the encounter means a wipe in the long run because we can't seem to pick up the dps loss of having the extra adds spawn.
You wont get p3 reliably in 3 brainrooms unless you improve that anyways, so the dps taking portals needs to work something out. Possible improvements here is standing ready atleast 2-3sec before portals spawn and having backups if anyone gets constricted. You should assign tentacles to each dps for the SW and dragon rooms to improve those (on our early tries we spent ~40sec clearing the dragonroom aswell, now it's down in just below 30 and the other 2 in just over 20). Also if you're taking the portals asap you get some time (like 5 sec) to get to the tentacles and heal up before they even spawn. Theres not enough to go on to point out what you're doing wrong here tho.
Originally Posted by Kaveli
In phase 3: We're trying to work out the most optimal positioning of the immortal guardians tanking location and raid positioning. In our decent phase 3's we were positioning them far from Yogg, with the healers behind me close to the wall and melee + some range dps on them and I felt it wasn't as optimal as it could be.
If you're getting overrun when guardians take too long getting too you, assign more dps to them. You also make it out as if you have downtime (theres no loss of dps on them unless you're not having anything tanked so you can hit it). If this happens your ranged can just hit yogg, since you would have way too much dps on them if they died before the next reached you. Aslong as theres no more than 2 tanked (and not about to die) at any given time you have enough dps on adds to not get overrun. We do tank them closer to the middle tho, and just have most our dps on them in the start, then tell them one by one to swap to yogg till we find a good balance. To be honest I'd say you just need to pick a positioning where your tanks get to pick them up before they gib healers.
For phase 3 we put melee and ranged dps up right on Yogg. Healers are further back and guardians are tanked close to Yogg but far enough so that ranged that are dpsing down the guardians don't have to ever turn away from Yogg. This gives plenty of time to grab adds before they gib healers. You can catch up on adds due to far away spawns by pulling one or two of your Yogg dps off him temporarily if its needed and adds are building up.
Under 30 stacks, just make a tank run in and interrupt. Over 30 stacks either use a pet if you're running behind on dps a lot, or a tank with a CD, or a holy pala with bubble, or make the stacks reset by swapping dps to something else for a second or two.
In general though, if you're going with 4 keepers, they shouldn't pose an issue. Just interrupt them at start a few times, once the first portals spawned you won't have to deal with any over 20 seconds normally.
Basic aspect of p2 is making sure you get the tentacles inside down 20 seconds after the portals spawn. (if the brain is not stunned at that point, another crusher spawns)
To kaveli:
We tank the immortals between the ranged cluster and yog (in melee range to yog). This allows incidental ae from melee to hit them, tanks can taunt them if they spawn on/near ranged and all other ae (like typhoon, bomb, starfall, cl) hits yog as well. As long as the dps on them assist, the heal isn't a problem that i've noticed. We just play by feel on the people on adds vs people on yog, but you should definitely have an assignment if you are struggling.
Also a bit annoying fact about 25man as brain dps. With my fairly good PC, when i enter brain it takes around 5-8sec to load NPCS, wasting a lot of DPS time for me. I could bet the same issue is present for more of our DPS. Even tab targeting running with using instant doesn't worked for me even if i know the tentacle location.
Tried with no addons, minimum possible details etc...
E2160@3.6ghz
2GB
R4830@4850 780/1300
You could have the folks in the brain split up. Those who regularly take a while to load can go straight to the back and start there. If you do that you have to make sure everyone is arranged so that they're coming out to the brain when the last tentacle dies.
You could have the folks in the brain split up. Those who regularly take a while to load can go straight to the back and start there. If you do that you have to make sure everyone is arranged so that they're coming out to the brain when the last tentacle dies.
This is what I usually do, depending on the room I start dps on the 3rd or 4th tentacle from the left while the people for who it loads faster mop up the first ones. Works fine for us.
How much dps do you typically put on yogg? Last night we had 6 melee dps and 3 hunters going into the brain room, we had the melee on yogg the entire time in p3 and ranged+hunters killing the guardians. Adds were under control, yogg at 4-5% and not sure what happened, either adds spawned faster or people panicked and stopped dpsing adds but suddenly there were like 5 of them up and yogg starts healing and wipe. Is 6 melee too little dps on yogg?
It sounds like Empowering Shadows went off. Theres no real other way a 'there were suddenly 5 up' scenario can occur, unless DPS is just downright poor. It's possible your DPS switched too early to a fresh spawn whilst Empowering Shadows was being cast, and the smaller add didn't get to low enough HP for Thorims zap. Now your stuck with the smaller add healing, and the fresh spawn ranged were trying to kill, also healing. Quickly thereafter a third add spawns and things get nasty, as all of the adds are healing with Empowering Shadows by that stage.
For a guilds first kill, it would be very easy for DPS to see Yogg at -5% and assume they can ignore adds or get complacent and lose track of priorities, not realising how quickly the adds can get out of control (especially if Empowering Shadows cast.) It's important for the Raid Leader to remind people to focus on their priorities until the very end.
Can anybody clarify whether vanish works on constrictor tentacles just like iceblock/bubble/hand of protection?
Given our rogues going in the portal scream bloody murder to get busted out if they get constricted on the 1st portal phase since HoPs aren't back up from blowing them prefight I would think not.
My guild is just learning yogg 10m and my raid leader insists that everyone in the raid should equip a pvp trinket that breaks mind control. I feel like this is just a bandaid for crappy dispelling, and I've tried to bring this up with him. On a typical phase 1, I (holy priest) typicaly have at least a dozen dispells, followed by a ret paly with 5-6 and then it drops off to 1-2 from another sham/priest. We make it through to phase 2 without any deaths, but we fail to bring the brain down in 4 or fewer portal phases, and I think it's due to almost everyone having non-ideal burst dps trinkets equiped.
Did/does anyone else use this strategy while learning?
It's probably a mix between having low DPS (10man YS DPS requirement is pretty low compared to 25 from my experience, and we killed YS-10 wiith 3 healers in the raid, 2 tanks, and no heroism in 2 brain phases..) and the fact that you are using those pvp trinkets.
As a suggestion, the new WG trinkets are offering a passive offensive stat boost and the on-use MC removal. Those might be helpful until your healers adjust. Dispelling MCs is pretty easy since there isn't much going on in P1 at all since those adds have so few HP
Given our rogues going in the portal scream bloody murder to get busted out if they get constricted on the 1st portal phase since HoPs aren't back up from blowing them prefight I would think not.
05/21/09, 3:27 PM
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