Resetting the Crushers focused anger buff happens when it receives no direct attacks within X seconds (AKA all dps stops briefly). Interrupting the Dimished Power channel is the result of a melee hit. A melee hit on its own doesn't reset the Focused Anger. Not sure what you meant by your wording in the quote. But you don't remove the Focused Anger buff on the Crusher. You remove the Dimished power Debuff from players.
If you're resetting the Focused Anger , it would mean you're telling your ranged dps to stop/start. Are you telling your ranged to stop/start dps?
I assume he meant resetting the channel of Diminished Power. I also do this. I make sure Demo roar is up on the tentacle stand with the circle under the mob halfway through my character (in bear form its right in the middle) and just move in with maul queued and mangle then move out. I rarely if ever get hit and have enough Hp to take the hit unless its at a HUGE number of stacks (at which point I generally don't go in).
On 10 man I did find that doing it without Mimiron up to slow the cast does make the jousting fairly useless since the buff gets recast incredibly quickly. Better off dpsing corruptors in that case. I'm not sure if it makes as big a difference in 25 man (removing 20% damage reduction from a larger number of players).
The biggest efficiency gain for us just seemed to be practice. I roughly told people to cover their side of the room (their side = side they took portals on), with the front group covering the back in the dragon room and the front in the stormwind room. But that never quite worked out, but the groups kind of sorted themselves over time, as people learned which tentacles tended to live the longest and we just naturally tended to split it up. I typically run to the back dragons nowadays, despite that not being correct, and being on the left side portal, because that's what ended up working out.
Well, it seems like it hasn't been working itself out and since I don't actually go in I can't really say what's going on in there organically. Therefore it seems like the next best thing is to assign people specific tentacles or tentacle groups. I dunno. It really feels like people just aren't listening to what I'm saying, which is why I want to make diagrams (since that seems to make it clearer for some people). I've told them to split up into 3 groups for the IC/Ebon hold room since we started doing Yogg, for example, and they still aren't doing it (instead they keep doing the standard split into two groups that they do for the rest of the rooms).
I assume he meant resetting the channel of Diminished Power. I also do this. I make sure Demo roar is up on the tentacle stand with the circle under the mob halfway through my character (in bear form its right in the middle) and just move in with maul queued and mangle then move out. I rarely if ever get hit and have enough Hp to take the hit unless its at a HUGE number of stacks (at which point I generally don't go in).
On 10 man I did find that doing it without Mimiron up to slow the cast does make the jousting fairly useless since the buff gets recast incredibly quickly. Better off dpsing corruptors in that case. I'm not sure if it makes as big a difference in 25 man (removing 20% damage reduction from a larger number of players).
We stopped bothering with it in the 25-men. On our earlier kills we sometimes had 2 crushers up in which case getting rid of the Diminished Power is critical. You don't want your raid to run with -40% damage. Generally speaking, the only time we have 2 crushers up nowadays is before the first portal phase; the second crusher will usually spawn before the first one dies. One of our tanks just melee it for a bit until the first one is dead.
Once your portal group learns to get the stun before the 40 second mark, running with -20% damage for a while isn't so bad as it seems as the long stuns make up for the lost damage easily. All of phase 2 basically comes down to the portal group doing their job quick and efficient. The longer you fight a stunned boss the easier everything becomes. It's important to realize that the DPS requirements to get a 40-43 second stun are really really low; it's all about moving efficient and splitting up DPS on the tentacles.
I've got some questions regarding the Yogg Saron encounter. Since my raid is not eager to test things I'd like to ask some questions here.
1. Can you mind control (Priest ability) a mind-controlled (Yogg Saron - Sanity 0%) person?
2. Since you see other players as faceless-ones when you are mind controlled, do you see the immortal guardians as normal humans? If not, can your player possibly attack them while being mind controlled? (instead of attacking your actual allies)
Why these questions? Simple, I think there might be a yet undetected mechanic in this fight.
Why do I think so? Well... I'm still asking myself one thing: Why is this one-minute-to-death timer, when you are insane?
Why these questions? Simple, I think there might be a yet undetected mechanic in this fight.
Why do I think so? Well... I'm still asking myself one thing: Why is this one-minute-to-death timer, when you are insane?
The 1 min timer is probably just a balancing factor since the MCed persons get buffed quite a bit and it's a waste of time to DPS them down when you can just wait it out.
And if I remember correcly, Insane people drop dead instantly in P3 so I have no idea if they see Immortals as humans (but I doubt it).
All mobs are green anyway, so it doesn't matter. There's no hidden trick to it, I assume the timer is so you don't spend several minutes running around without any control of your character, as that would only be frustrating. You know, Leotheras flashbacks.
We discovered something slightly odd last night. One of our warlocks got mind controlled when Yogg was at ~2%, so since no one had died at that point and we didn't have a no-death Yogg kill yet, we tried polymorphing him until Yogg died, at which point the warlock died instantly, but everyone (including the dead warlock) was credited for Conquerer of Ulduar.
I've heard rumors from the wonderful people on the raid and dungeon forums (so take this for what it's worth) that Yogg Saron's brain has no armor, and therefore unnecessary to sunder/expose and especially to use Shattering Throw.
Not really able to test this for myself tonight, but was wondering if anyone had tested and can confirm/deny or heard something similar? (Apparently this is also the case for XT's heart.) Thanks.
I can confirm XT's heart has indeed zero armor and you therefore don't need to sunder/expose it.
I'm not normally on "braing duty" on Yogg, but our melee is saying Yogg's brain *does* actually have armor and we have a rogue expose it on every brain phase.
My 10 man guild has made it to Yogg at last, and we've put in a couple hours of tries. We've made it to Phase 2 twice as the raid was wiping but are definitely suffering from "two many spawns" towards the end of phase 1. From what I can tell, sometimes it's players screwing up and clipping clouds, but it also seems like like we are falling behind on DPS and not getting Sara down quick enough. We've had most success with the 2 tank strat but I know that contributes to the DPS problem. This is a broad question but is there any advice you all could give for a guild just learning the fight and trying to deal with the phase 1 issues? Is 2 tank strat the safest? Are there tips for speeding it up? I've read through this thread and gleaned a few good details but any additional help would be much appreciated.
How you deal with phase one depends a lot on how much dps your group is able to do.
What my guild has the most success with is tanking the guardians right on top of sara and having the raid dance around the clouds. If we spawn extras, a DPS can temporarily offtank the 3rd mob (bear form, def stance + shield, etc.)
Using the "tank in the middle" strat does require the raid to kill the guardians fairly quickly, but removes the issue with the mobs dying early since they are always in position.
For a low dps group keeping the raid on the door side and running the mobs to sara around 30% is a fair choice, although 1-2 ranged will need to be assigned to finish the mobs once they reach the destination. Having shaman/mages ready to interrupt volley while the mob is being moved helps as well.
It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
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12/13 [25] Heroic - Recruiting exceptional players.
2 tanks is really not helping much. All it does is give you a small delay to pick up dps until you get overrun. You need to be able to dps a mob down before a new one spawns, and adding a tank is not going to help.
I'd go with one tank and 2 healers. You should get p1 under control, and by far the easiest way to do this is have enough dps (and not tag clouds).
We've been having a hell of a time getting our portal groups properly set up. I've never successfully noted it in the heat of an attempt, so just a simple question: on 10-man, where exactly do the portals spawn? I originally assumed it was a square around yogg, but on the one attempt I made note before the portal group was in, it looked something like:
Where O is a portal and Y is Yogg's body. I couldn't get the directions down before they were taken though, and while 25-man strategies are easy to find, any detail on the 10-man version portals is almost nonexistent.
The other question I'd like to ask is: what do you do if a melee or the tank (or even an out-of-range healer or ranged) gets Constricted on their way around Yogg to the next Crusher? Most strategies I've seen have Crushers as 100% highest priority, but it seems on the surface that spending the damage to break someone out would be more than worth their output.
The other question I'd like to ask is: what do you do if a melee or the tank (or even an out-of-range healer or ranged) gets Constricted on their way around Yogg to the next Crusher? Most strategies I've seen have Crushers as 100% highest priority, but it seems on the surface that spending the damage to break someone out would be more than worth their output.
In 25 man we consider constrictors #1 priority. Crushers are #2. The raid is generally together, so constrictors take almost no time. If the raid is split up (for portals or whatever), nearby DPS - we don't have all the DPS run from the crusher to come help, just the nearby ones.
We've been having a hell of a time getting our portal groups properly set up. I've never successfully noted it in the heat of an attempt, so just a simple question: on 10-man, where exactly do the portals spawn? I originally assumed it was a square around yogg, but on the one attempt I made note before the portal group was in, it looked something like:
The other question I'd like to ask is: what do you do if a melee or the tank (or even an out-of-range healer or ranged) gets Constricted on their way around Yogg to the next Crusher? Most strategies I've seen have Crushers as 100% highest priority, but it seems on the surface that spending the damage to break someone out would be more than worth their output.
From my examination on 10man it appears portals are every 60 degrees around Yogg on 10man and every 30 degrees on 25man. That makes 6 portals on 10man and 12 on 25man.
People constricted have a hard time A) staying with the group and B) healing/DPSing. Having the group stick together is of vital importance, part of that is breaking people out of constrictor. You'll shoot yourself in the foot on the first brain link if you expect the person to break themselves out. If DPS targets it a Constrictor should die in 2 GCD (3 seconds) or less. Definitely kill Constrictors.
Melee are useless on Crushers until they're stunned. Unless you're almost pure melee, throw your melee in portals to kill illusions and hit the brain, while your casters can DPS Crushers both before and after stun. Having melee twiddling thumbs waiting for the stun is wasted DPS. If you're very melee heavy I could understand not sending all in the portal in order to not fall behind on tentacle spawns.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
Melee are useless on Crushers until they're stunned. Unless you're almost pure melee, throw your melee in portals to kill illusions and hit the brain, while your casters can DPS Crushers both before and after stun. Having melee twiddling thumbs waiting for the stun is wasted DPS. If you're very melee heavy I could understand not sending all in the portal in order to not fall behind on tentacle spawns.
While waiting for portals, melee can be gainfully employed on killing corruptors, since they can't kill crushers anyway.
We finally got yogg down. A few final tips:
Crushers #1, Constrictors #2, Corrupters #3
We often will completely ignore Constrictors and let the person in them 'die'. Hodir saves them and the constrictor despawns. Basically, Hodir can do dps for you! This is only safe to do if you dont let people die to the green beams.
The only requirements for P2 is excellent portal groups (40s or less!) and killing crushers
In P3, we had the most success by using 2 off tanks picking up adds, 1 MT taunting adds for focus. Adds tanked within melee range of yogg for incidental free aoe damage. All melee went on adds, all ranged on yogg. Whenever there were 3 adds up, call for aoe and all non-affliction warlocks aoe down adds at that time. At 5% call for 1 last aoe of adds then everyone goes on the boss, Tanks use cooldowns to make it through the last 5%.
Affliction locks rule for this fight. Bring as many as you can, they make P3 much better.
In 10 man, the portals are at the northeast, northwest, southwest, and southeast.
In 25 man, the portals are at every number on the clockface except 5 and 7 o'clock (looking at the minimap),
so there's a relative scarcity of portals where Yogg-Saron's mouth is.
We've always looked at the Yogg head (in 25) as being a sort of pie with three slices of three portals each: One "slice" in the north (11:00, 12:00 and 1:00), one in the Southwest (10:00 or so, 9:00 and 7:30) and one in the southeast (2:00, 3:00, 4:30) . This leaves one portal at the due south point (6:00), and that's where we send our portal healer. This way we assign groups of 3 to these "zones" instead of to individual portals. It's quicker to assign before the fight, and as long as the portal team is arriving to their portals a few seconds early it's very easy to see which portals aren't yet taken (meaning it's just as fast as assigning each portal individually).
I can confirm XT's heart has indeed zero armor and you therefore don't need to sunder/expose it.
I'm not normally on "braing duty" on Yogg, but our melee is saying Yogg's brain *does* actually have armor and we have a rogue expose it on every brain phase.
Both the Heart and the Brain have armor. I just went through the logs for Heart and Brain phases from this week and its quite clear that physical damage increases as Sunders/Exposes go up.
So, seeing that more things are now allowed : Any suggestions how to deal with brain room while being bit short on melee? It doesn't matter much with 40% damage buff, but once those % drop, it starts to get much worse. I thought maybe hunters would be decent, with some burst on the move, while also benefiting from melee buffs. Any other specs/classes that would work "decently"? Arcane Mages, maybe? I'm not expecting them to perform better than pure melee group, of course, but with that unavailable, need a replacement.
Their pets cannot dps the crusher tentacles and as a physical dps class they should have all the buffs available in the brain room (which does not seem obvious if they stay outside with casters)
On a completely contrary note, how to handle crushers with a melee heavy group. We only run 10 mans, and routinely have 1 ranged in the raid, depending on who can come. Yogg with watchers is fine, but once we start trying +1 (thorim left, of course) we run into severe dps issues on crushers. We have tried having me tanking the crushers, but at some point I either get constricted or death coiled, and the melee dps on crushers go down.
So in short, any way to handle crushers with less watchers and 1 ranged only? We can usually push dps on brain hard enough to do about half the required damage in one brain phase, but it always falls apart somewhere there due to crushers/corruptors getting out of hand when people die.
06/23/09, 6:42 PM
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