Originally Posted by Stein,February 27th, 2006 @ 3:02PM
Anyone ever tried MC'ing Legionaires to kill Dragonkin? Seems like with their special anti dragonkin attack, the Legionaires could wtfpwn them...
Yes. It was inefficient.
Originally Posted by Lyta
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.
Originally Posted by Euronymous,February 27th, 2006 @ 3:09PM
at blizzcon, a developer mentioned that he had seen hundreds of different successful razorgore strategies.
Which, in my mind, continues to make that boss one of their greatest successes thus far in the game. Having a fight that is winable through multiple methods yet manages to remain interesting, different, challenging, and balanced is a pretty cool accomplishment IMO.
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF,February 27th, 2006 @ 4:54PM
Yeah we tried a few different strategies with mind control. Never really got them to work too well.
Ditto, we thought MC was important way back in our early attempts, didn't do anything but draw more attention on to the priests. Although the encounter is very different for horde and alliance, and as stated above there are tons of successful strategies for each faction.
I have to agree with Slug. Razorgore seemed so refreshing after completing MC, and remains a pretty entertaining encounter. He's one of the few bosses where we continue to experiment with different strats simply because it's fun.
Attempting to prolong some novelty for most other fights usually leads to doing something silly and contrived that involves handicapping the raid in some way (e.g. naked tanks on pre-Luci MC trash pulls or *cough*10-man Onyxia*cough*) to keep things interesting. Razorgore's design allows for some non-trivial change of pace as a result of manipulating your strat rather than devising some gimmick for additional fun or challenge.
AS I MANAGED TO SAY IN THE WRONG THREAD...I know back in the day we tried the kiting strat that Nightmare Asylum made the video of and it worked miserably for us....but its obviously possible. I'm sure that somewhere out there, there's a guild that has adopted and refined the mind controlling of Legionarres to an art.
Originally Posted by Torael_7,February 27th, 2006 @ 9:53PM
AS I MANAGED TO SAY IN THE WRONG THREAD...I know back in the day we tried the kiting strat that Nightmare Asylum made the video of and it worked miserably for us....but its obviously possible. I'm sure that somewhere out there, there's a guild that has adopted and refined the mind controlling of Legionarres to an art.
Interesting. I'll freely admit that we switched to that strat after watching the video, and we've used it ever since. It's like a rite of passage for EJ shamans now.
Originally Posted by Praetorian,February 28th, 2006 @ 2:17AM
Originally Posted by Torael_7,February 27th, 2006 @ 9:53PM
AS I MANAGED TO SAY IN THE WRONG THREAD...I know back in the day we tried the kiting strat that Nightmare Asylum made the video of and it worked miserably for us....but its obviously possible. I'm sure that somewhere out there, there's a guild that has adopted and refined the mind controlling of Legionarres to an art.
Interesting. I'll freely admit that we switched to that strat after watching the video, and we've used it ever since. It's like a rite of passage for EJ shamans now.
Are you serious or jerking my chain? We just split into four groups and assign a group to each corner to slaughter every NPC that comes out. Druids/warlocks/hunters sleep/fear/kite dragons, respectively. Works like a charm, and its even easier now that they've nerfed the spawn rate somewhat. Good training for nef phase 1, too, come to think of it.
Originally Posted by Slug,February 27th, 2006 @ 4:39PM
Which, in my mind, continues to make that boss one of their greatest successes thus far in the game. Having a fight that is winable through multiple methods yet manages to remain interesting, different, challenging, and balanced is a pretty cool accomplishment IMO.
Yes, that's tough to pull off. It's always been my issue with the Firemaw encounter--it can be an intense and precise fight, and often unforgiving, but there seems something so uninspired about a fight which obviously had exactly one solution in mind.
I find Nef phase 1 has a surprisingly good balance in the face of different strategies. The first video I saw was the NA one, where they AoE'd all the mobs in one big clump. Then Ascent came out with their pure FF strategy (and I think Jaegermaestro posted once on CQ that they initially AoE'd, but had to switch to FF when they first saw Red/Black). Our guild AoE's the mobs in two packs (one in front of each door). We tried to FF the first time we saw Red/Black and it was a disaster, but we AoE'd them just fine. There's something more rewarding about the fights where the best strategy really is "whatever works well for you."
Even our Razorgore strat is this odd thing where we have a Warr take control halfway through and aggro every mob in the room onto Raz with the AoE fireball. Then he releases and trains the whole pack of them around in figure 8's for the rest of the fight.
Originally Posted by Arawethion,February 28th, 2006 @ 1:28AM
Even our Razorgore strat is this odd thing where we have a Warr take control halfway through and aggro every mob in the room onto Raz with the AoE fireball. Then he releases and trains the whole pack of them around in figure 8's for the rest of the fight.
Yeah, I recently ran into another guild who simply uses a warrior to control for the full duration since he's instant tank after the egg phase and doesn't have to worry about agro. They seemed to use an interesting hybrid of the NA strat and some things alliance guilds tend toward that sounded highly unstable but apparently worked very well for them.
Originally Posted by Slug,February 28th, 2006 @ 4:00AM
Yeah, I recently ran into another guild who simply uses a warrior to control for the full duration since he's instant tank after the egg phase and doesn't have to worry about agro. They seemed to use an interesting hybrid of the NA strat and some things alliance guilds tend toward that sounded highly unstable but apparently worked very well for them.
they fixed this one but at one stage you could trivialize phase2 of the fight by just letting the last person to mc him be your maintank. this would give him a huge chunk of agro making it close to impossible to overnuke in phase2. he would stick to this warrior even after he had conflaged him. then they changed the encounter so he would ignore conflag:d targets and go for nr2 on the list.
edit: the mt mc'ing him is still a good idea but gives alot less threat than it used to.
Originally Posted by Arawethion,February 28th, 2006 @ 2:28AM
Then Ascent came out with their pure FF strategy (and I think Jaegermaestro posted once on CQ that they initially AoE'd, but had to switch to FF when they first saw Red/Black).
Factual e-peen correction: Ascent tried FF after learning that we did it successfully that way -- Jager has said as much. We've done it that way since before our first kill, and often have zero drakonids alive at any given time during phase 1.
And Minhjaal, yeah, I'm serious. We had various mixed DPS+CC+kiting strats that we had used before, but NA's earthbind totem highway struck me as much more elegant and stable. We've used that method for 7 months now.
God the raid where we had two new shamans, five shaman total, and one got an important phone call midway through was just beautiful. We didn't wipe and we didn't have any extra dead. It's more than a rite of passage, it's proof of worth.
Razorgore is still one of the best designed fights in the game. Makes me wish BWL hadn't been so rushed.
Originally Posted by Praetorian,February 28th, 2006 @ 8:21AM
and often have zero drakonids alive at any given time during phase 1.
Wow, thats impressing. Untill i read this i thought our DPS is really good at phase1, since we have not more than 2-3 drakonids at each side. I wonder how you managing that.
Originally Posted by zeidrich
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.
There's a touch of group competition going on during phase 1. Both sides want to be able to say that they're having to wait on each subsequent spawn. It's when someone fails to assist that we get behind and people get yelled at over Vent.
Originally Posted by Lyta
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.
Originally Posted by Slug,February 28th, 2006 @ 4:00AM
Originally Posted by Arawethion,February 28th, 2006 @ 1:28AM
Even our Razorgore strat is this odd thing where we have a Warr take control halfway through and aggro every mob in the room onto Raz with the AoE fireball. Then he releases and trains the whole pack of them around in figure 8's for the rest of the fight.
Yeah, I recently ran into another guild who simply uses a warrior to control for the full duration since he's instant tank after the egg phase and doesn't have to worry about agro. They seemed to use an interesting hybrid of the NA strat and some things alliance guilds tend toward that sounded highly unstable but apparently worked very well for them.
We actually have a tank (in full FR for the conflag) MC him for the entire fight and the warriors actually do the kiting with piercing howl and a little help from Earthbind totems.
It's amazing how that fight was super hard, then all of a sudden it became impossible to wipe on.
I remember trying to do the earthbind kiting method.
All our shamans would get dazed and die instantly.
We went to kill groups in each corner and suddenly there were no loose mobs running around unless someone was slacking. And it was a ton of fun being a little 5 man death squad.
Originally Posted by Slug,February 28th, 2006 @ 4:00AM
Yeah, I recently ran into another guild who simply uses a warrior to control for the full duration since he's instant tank after the egg phase and doesn't have to worry about agro. They seemed to use an interesting hybrid of the NA strat and some things alliance guilds tend toward that sounded highly unstable but apparently worked very well for them.
What I just described is highly unstable, we just go with it anyway. A loss of a tank causes all the mobs to run all over the place onto everybody. Normally we can scrap it out though it things are going bad, and it's a very clean kill when it works.
Yeah, we can't manage that at all for Nef P1. Really good FF is just a skill we never built up, but we players with a great intuition for getting the mobs to stay in the doorway, getting the off of healers, using Challenging Shout, etc. We often come back just fine from having 10 or so mobs up on a side. It's less efficient to have more mobs up, but in most cases it hardly matters.
02/27/06, 5:02 PM
