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03/09/06, 3:15 PM
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#16
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Praetorian,March 9th, 2006 @ 12:59PM
No way, Archaedas in Uldaman is level 500+, Cosmos says so.
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No wonder that fucker is so hard.
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03/09/06, 4:36 PM
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#17
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King Hippo
ex-Elfan
Night Elf Hunter
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Zoid,March 9th, 2006 @ 1:12PM
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Originally Posted by Thommy,March 9th, 2006 @ 9:57AM
I may sound stupid here, but I thought the highest things got in pretty much all blizzard games was level 255. Let me know if I'm wrong.
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Heh, 255 would be a holdover from the 8bit days (think the original Diablo). We don't store stuff in bytes anymore.
Hell, most of the stuff I'm writing in game development these days stores stuff in 64 bit values, that means it can go up to 18,446,744,073,709,551,614!
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2^64 - 1 == 18,446,744,073,709,551,615
Don't undersell your numbers!
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03/09/06, 11:10 PM
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#18
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Elfan,March 9th, 2006 @ 4:36PM
2^64 - 1 == 18,446,744,073,709,551,615
Don't undersell your numbers!
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I guess I'll be needing more +hit gear. :(
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<08-07-09 02:09>[Velth] This is the behavior of a benefactor of the EJ forums?
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03/09/06, 11:42 PM
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#19
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Glass Joe
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haha, my guess was from watchin a video about GM's on personal server. Pretty sure the highest the guy got his cha to was level 255.
Here's a link to the vid: kinda cool
http://www.youtube.com/w/GM-movie?v=S8L2Xe...search=Wow%20GM
Edit: About D1, I could have sworn it was 255. That's actually something that came to my mind when i said 255 originally.
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03/10/06, 7:26 AM
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#20
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Soda Popinski
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Originally Posted by Thommy,March 9th, 2006 @ 10:42PM
haha, my guess was from watchin a video about GM's on personal server. Pretty sure the highest the guy got his cha to was level 255.
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Arbitrary number. HP, Mana, Xp, and abilities can all be regulated outside of level increments. The only signifigance of level on a WoW mob (or PC) is if they are governed by any specific To Hit or To Cast rules based on that number.
A level 1 GM or mob in WoW could have over 9 million HP and an unresistable insta-kill level 1 innate spell, if Blizzard wanted them to, but any character in the game could easily land full-damage spells/hits on them. They could have level 60 spells as well, but they generally couldn't use spells that needed level 2+ to cast in the requirements unless it was a specifically tailored version of that spell for that character, I believe.
The level on raidmobs is generally more built around the idea of resist rates to players than mob abilities, as I've seen it. The abilities can all be coded however they need to be mostly outside of level constrictions. Abilities that call level check are probably set and then bumped around until they feel the resist rate is a good value for the encounter's intended difficulty.
That said, I still don't really understand where they were going with Huhuran. Hehe.
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03/10/06, 11:52 AM
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#21
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<Druid Trainer>
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We just put in our first (and hopefully last) full night of work on her. My strong intuition is that the Acid Spit behavior is unintended and that the tanking situation in this fight is supposed to be just like Firemaw (with regards to Flame Buffet).
I'm not sure what I'm basing this all on, but forcing repeatable tank transitions on an untauntable mob doesn't quite feel like something they would do. You could just let the tanks die, like on Vael, but that weakens your ability to handle the second phase of the fight--it feels like a cumbersome way to design an encounter.
It's like untauntable Firemaw--you can tell what the solution was supposed to be, but you can't do anything about it (it's just a lot easier to work around in this case (especially with BoP)). The tanking challenge here was supposed to be about having enough NR to reset Acid Spit in the first half, and still being able to survive the enormous melee enrage (and guilds who needed two separate tanks for this would only be slightly worse off).
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03/10/06, 12:16 PM
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#22
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Mike Tyson
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I think transitions were intended, personally. Acid Spit isn't applied often enough and doesn't last long enough to be even a slight threat if NR let you resist it the way you can resist Flame Buffet.
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03/10/06, 1:12 PM
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#23
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Great Tiger
Worgen Priest
Ravencrest (EU)
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Originally Posted by Arawethion,March 10th, 2006 @ 11:52AM
We just put in our first (and hopefully last) full night of work on her. My strong intuition is that the Acid Spit behavior is unintended and that the tanking situation in this fight is supposed to be just like Firemaw (with regards to Flame Buffet).
I'm not sure what I'm basing this all on, but forcing repeatable tank transitions on an untauntable mob doesn't quite feel like something they would do. You could just let the tanks die, like on Vael, but that weakens your ability to handle the second phase of the fight--it feels like a cumbersome way to design an encounter.
It's like untauntable Firemaw--you can tell what the solution was supposed to be, but you can't do anything about it (it's just a lot easier to work around in this case (especially with BoP)). The tanking challenge here was supposed to be about having enough NR to reset Acid Spit in the first half, and still being able to survive the enormous melee enrage (and guilds who needed two separate tanks for this would only be slightly worse off).
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Untauntable Firemaw wasn't a bug. Making the drakes tauntable was a design decision made after they turned out to be too challenging for what was intended.
I think the tank transitions are intended on Huhuran. It's actually a brand new "skill" the raid has to learn, how to do tank transitions on untauntable mobs without deaggro effects. It's not hard, but it does take a few attempts to get it right. If the damage output on the raid was higher, it would be a lot harder to pull off, since dps would have to go harder. I expect that to pop up on a mob soon, which will require a lot more precise work with the aggro. Huhuran has a lot of headroom both on timing and execution of the switch.
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03/10/06, 2:11 PM
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#24
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<Druid Trainer>
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Originally Posted by Elerion,March 10th, 2006 @ 1:12PM
Untauntable Firemaw wasn't a bug. Making the drakes tauntable was a design decision made after they turned out to be too challenging for what was intended.
I think the tank transitions are intended on Huhuran. It's actually a brand new "skill" the raid has to learn, how to do tank transitions on untauntable mobs without deaggro effects. It's not hard, but it does take a few attempts to get it right. If the damage output on the raid was higher, it would be a lot harder to pull off, since dps would have to go harder. I expect that to pop up on a mob soon, which will require a lot more precise work with the aggro. Huhuran has a lot of headroom both on timing and execution of the switch.
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I know it wasn't a "bug," but I would consider it a design error that they corrected. Maybe I would think of it differently if I'd ever gotten to fight the untauntable drakes, but it seems like Wing Buffet on a tauntable mob is a neat and interesting ability for a raid boss, with a simple and specific solution. It's a better fight now than if it had just been another aggro-ceiling race (you only need one of those).
It's not at all unreasonable for them to make a fight about tauntless transitions (even though Huhuran is definitely a fight "about" something else already). But Acid Spit is either:
1) Intended to behave like it is, and is just a meaningless bit of effort on their part for reasons we will never understand.
2) Supposed to be unresistable, which would make the fight barely changed from how it is now.
3) Supposed to normally resistable.
None of these is totally outlandish, but 2 seems like a much less likely bug than 3 (agree or disagree, since I'm basing this on nothing at all).
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03/10/06, 2:31 PM
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#25
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Great Tiger
Worgen Priest
Ravencrest (EU)
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It would be a relatively useless ability if normally resistable. Your tank has to be in NR gear for the fight anyway, so it would be a gimmick problem that solved itself.
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03/10/06, 2:33 PM
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#26
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<Druid Trainer>
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Originally Posted by Elerion,March 10th, 2006 @ 2:31PM
It would be a relatively useless ability if normally resistable. Your tank has to be in NR gear for the fight anyway, so it would be a gimmick problem that solved itself.
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Yeah, I was just pointing out that there's no other explanation which makes strictly more sense.
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03/12/06, 11:49 AM
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#27
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Elerion,March 10th, 2006 @ 2:31PM
It would be a relatively useless ability if normally resistable. Your tank has to be in NR gear for the fight anyway, so it would be a gimmick problem that solved itself.
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But we've seen Flame Buffet stack up on to 20+ on a MT in full FR. I understand what you're saying, but the problem would hardly ever take care of itself due to the randomness of WoW's resist system.
I'm gonna have to go with bugged on this one, although forcing tank transitions on an untauntable mob is interesting. I think there are much more graceful ways of doing it though.
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03/12/06, 8:53 PM
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#28
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Don Flamenco
Undead Rogue
Al'Akir (EU)
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Originally Posted by Requitas,March 12th, 2006 @ 11:49AM
I'm gonna have to go with bugged on this one, although forcing tank transitions on an untauntable mob is interesting. I think there are much more graceful ways of doing it though.
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I actually really like the transition mechanic in this fight. We've gotten used to the fast switching via taunts in BWL, this mechanic just involves a little bit more dynamic use of abilities we've gotten used to using in raids for different situations. Admittedly, I think you're right in that it could have been done somewhat more gracefully, but at least the raid learns how to pull it off.
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