aertifact

Hey, let me start.

I recently got the Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros. I have been MS specced the whole time since I got it and even from lvl 40 I've been Arms specced. As you all prolly know, the one thing that blows with this weapon is the "mace specc" wich is utterly useless PvE wise(Except Strat, ZG.. easy anyways, right?). So I had the points spent in imp. Hamstring/Charge/Overpower, just for PvP.

My reasoning for not going fury before(w/ a 2h) is that I cant simply neglect the Sword/Axe/Polearm Specc. Now, that I can ignore the advantage from the arms three, I can reconsider the power of the fury three. Going fury, I will loose 2 skills(wich I will miss indeed); SS&MS, wich are really handy, but also very powerfull for trash/PvP and some boss encounters like Ebonroc. Other talents wich I must give up is rather sacrificable, like;

* Imp. OP
* Imp. Charge
* Imp. Hamstring(Ye I know, sucky sucky, but I find it rather funy and convinient)



So as you might understand I would like to hear from others wich have tryed out the fury three with a 2h, or even with this weapon aswell.

So my main questions;
* Any one tryed Fury with Hand of rag?
* Should I put points in imp. Slam? Since I allready find good use of slam w/MS, I guess it will be even more used with a Fury specc, or am I wrong?
* How much will my damage change(+/-)? If positive, how much? Is it worth it to gimp yourself for PvP? Cause you are, right?
* Would you require a certain amount of crit%/AP to make good use of Flurry/Bloodthirst?
* Do a more fun playstyle come with the Fury Three?


Regards,

 

thedruidness

Check out the WoW Warrior forums for Aedak...he's Fury specced with a Sulfuras, and has a lot to say about it :P

Basically it's great for PvE DPS. Imp Slam is important. I doubt you would be gimped for PvP with a legendary, but I do understand how losing some Arms talents affects PvP...guess it depends what's most important to you.

As for some other questions, I'll let some more experienced warriors post (my warrior hasn't raided with my guild yet; druid is my main :o )

 

Ghostz

We have a warrior that's got quite a few nice weps (including sulfuras) and has tried out both arms and fury builds. He seems to prefer dual wielding with fury for pve dps, and arms with sulfuras in pvp. Not too sure how much that helps, but for what its worth I think arms would be a better build for sulfuras, although it probably won't match up to dual wielding fury dps.

 

subscience

Remember to factor in 1.5s global cooldown. Improved Slam is a 1s cast, but you're still triggering the 1.5s global cooldown.

I personally chain-Slam and I'm not sure how big of a difference the 0.5s cast time would make (especially when you factor in global cooldown), but it's something you might want to factor in when speccing.

 

hellsoap

MORTAL STRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE

 

subscience

Also, has any Horde Warriors (especially those with Sword Spec) tried Hamstring spamming with WF Totem / HoJ / -5 Rage cost from the ZG Necklace and PvP Gloves?

Someone mentioned this in the Warrior forum and I never thought of this before, but apparently this is an excellent way to build Rage via extra attacks for a small 5 Rage cost.

 

• Wodin

Most of our Arms/Fury warriors do it, though I'm not sure if they're using all of the cost reductions(I suspect it's mostly just the ZG neck).

 

Gankin

I just recently specced into fury and have tried both DW and 2 hander (with a Bonereavers.)

I don't honestly find much use for Slam. When half the mobs in the game have AEs, Slam seems to be more trouble than it is worth. I specced into improved cleave and use that as a rage dump if I find myself swimming in rage. As an added bonus, I also noticed that encounters where I get mind controlled, I tend to try and Slam the casters. That extra half a second gives me more time to get pollied.

Why would you have to give up Imp Overpower? It's only a tier 3 talent. I'm 17/34 and have it. Anger Management is getting nerfed into oblivion in 1.10, so don't pick that up. I specced down to impale, 2/5 deflection, 5/5 TM, and 2 Imp Overpower. I never was too impressed with improved charge. In pvp I charge -> hamstring, so I wouldn't have enough rage for a MS/BT anyway. In pve you get drawn into combat on the pull. Trash mobs are about the only thing that saw full effectiveness from it.

I am having a much better time as a fury warrior. I personally prefer dual wield to 2 hander (and that's with a shitty Quel'Serrar/Sand Polished Hammer combo while I wait for an EoC.) As much as people claim Fury sucks for PvP, I don't really notice a difference. I do ALOT better against healers since DW just dominates casting bars. The only noticably harder fights are 31/20 Warriors, since I'm just an Enrage generator. I pull out a 2 hander if I find myself squared off against a solo Warrior. Duel Wield does generate alot of dodges, so find yourself a good weapon swap mod and enjoy the chain overpowers. I know I do.

 

subscience

Do you have details about the AM change, Gankin? I must have missed it in the notes.

 

diospadre

Most of us do it but none of us ever wear that neck.

 

Rachel

Elaborate please. :o

 

subscience

We demand answers! *rabble rabble*

 

• LodeRunner

I believe what he means is they're getting rid of ticking up rage in combat.

 

Gankin

Yeah. You won't generate rage while in combat anymore to prevent the bug that let you stay in combat and start a fight with 100 rage. So now the talent will just made you lose rage at 2 per tick instead of 2/3 per tick.

 

subscience

Ah, I see. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Imoan

I've been trying out a 20/31 impale/Bloodthirst build with an untamed blade recently. I don't notice a huge huge upgrade from 31/20 in terms of pve damage, but it's a different approach which is refreshing. Similar to what sub mentioned, I'll spam hamstring with windfury totem not only to build rage, but also to proc the UTB. When it goes off, I'll bloodrage, whirlwind, chain slam etc. It's a bit more bursty than I would like and results in a lot of untimely deaths :(. However, it's much more effective for solo farming than 31/20.

I haven't done much testing with it in pvp, but it is fun to have utb proc, blow cloudkeeper legs and recklessness and watch the bloodthirst crits. My main problem with it is that mortal strike is arguably one of the best debuffs for group pvp and sacrificing it makes me cry. I can't really see myself using this build with any other weapon though... The utb proc is just so good.

 

subscience

You could always group up with an MS Warrior or even a Troll Priest (wtf) in 1.10 for group PvP. If you coordinate well, then one MSing Warrior may be all you need. :)

 

• Lurchington

yeah, that's a first for me too :P

My race might actually be useful! :)

of course it will end up going away in the raid game, but it's something.

 

• Arawethion

Unless they fix other bugs as well, you can still get to 100 Rage by staying in combat for 4 mins and casting Bloodrage 5 times. A lot more annoying without AM, but still something do to while your group rezzes/buffs.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

• sekdar

I've tried 2h/arms, 2h/fury, DW/fury, and honestly 2h/fury impressed me the least. It's caught halfway between arms and dw fury. Arms favors the big burst, and DW favors sustained. 2h/fury offers a little bit more burst than DW (because you're using a 2h), and a little more sustained damage than arms (because of flurry), but shows off the true strengths of neither tree. The setup struck me as extremely awkward. It may come down to playstyle, but I abhor 2h/fury. I cannot understand why anyone would go fury without dual-wielding. And Aedak is smart, but don't take everything he says as inarguable truth.

As for the rest of your questions:

-Imp. Slam: With improved slam, you can chain cast it without any interference from the global cooldown. At least for warriors, GC is 1.0 seconds.

Having tried improved slam, I'm still convinced it is garbage. You can get very similar DPS results just repeatedly queuing HS and burning all of your instants, and save yourself the 5 talent points while doing it.

-DPS: By going 2h/Fury, you are going to give up a significant amount of PVP strength for what I consider a marginal increase in PVE dps. Mortal Strike is insanely popular not only because it is simple and straightforward, but because it works. Don't overlook that. I've played Fury for months, and the most agonizing part of it was always fighting healers, or enemy groups with healers. Multiple healers in an enemy group is a nightmare. That said, you can usually solve the problem, at least to a limited extent, by assisting off of an MS warrior.

It comes down to how much you PVP versus how much you PVE. It's a decision only you can make, really.

-Crit/AP are still just as important as in the Arms setup. You want as much of both as possible. Good numbers to shoot for for starting with fury are 1k self-buffed AP and 25+% crit. Less than that, and you're likely better off speccing arms until then.

-Playstyle definitely changes with fury. There is a bit of a learning curve, although more noticeable for DW fury. Instead of the "wait for rage, use MS/WW" style of Arms, Fury's playstyle is more akin to "use 5 different special attacks across the span of two seconds and wait for player's fingers to catch up." It's a lot of fun and playing Fury when juicing DPS as hard as you can or in a close group PVP matchup is incredibly frantic. You will never be without rage to use your desired attack, and Deathwish is a thing of beauty in both PVE and PVP.

 

subscience

I was under the impression that only Rogues enjoyed 1.0s global cooldown while the other classes were at 1.5s.

 

• sekdar

Rogues enjoy a 1.0 second global cooldown on weapon swapping. Warriors definitely have a 1.0 second GC for attacks - copy to the test server and spec improved slam to see for yourself. I've heard that all melee classes have a 1.0 ability GC and casters have 1.5, but I haven't tested that.

 

subscience

Ok, thanks for the heads up. I might test this out tonight. :)

 

◊ Belac_K

I know Priests have a 1 sec GC, otherwise the 1.4 sec flash heal Prophecy set bonus would be pretty worthless.

 

• Arawethion

I believe all casting globals are 1sec, in the abscence of server/client lag.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.