Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/16/06, 2:18 PM   #16
Imoan
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
I've been trying out a 20/31 impale/Bloodthirst build with an untamed blade recently. I don't notice a huge huge upgrade from 31/20 in terms of pve damage, but it's a different approach which is refreshing. Similar to what sub mentioned, I'll spam hamstring with windfury totem not only to build rage, but also to proc the UTB. When it goes off, I'll bloodrage, whirlwind, chain slam etc. It's a bit more bursty than I would like and results in a lot of untimely deaths :(. However, it's much more effective for solo farming than 31/20.

I haven't done much testing with it in pvp, but it is fun to have utb proc, blow cloudkeeper legs and recklessness and watch the bloodthirst crits. My main problem with it is that mortal strike is arguably one of the best debuffs for group pvp and sacrificing it makes me cry. I can't really see myself using this build with any other weapon though... The utb proc is just so good.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 2:21 PM   #17
subscience
Great Tiger
 
subscience's Avatar
 
Orc Mage
 
Ner'zhul
You could always group up with an MS Warrior or even a Troll Priest (wtf) in 1.10 for group PvP. If you coordinate well, then one MSing Warrior may be all you need. :)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 4:12 PM   #18
Lurchington
King Hippo
 
Lurchington's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by subscience,March 16th, 2006 @ 2:21PM
You could always group up with an MS Warrior or even a Troll Priest (wtf) in 1.10 for group PvP. If you coordinate well, then one MSing Warrior may be all you need. :)
yeah, that's a first for me too :P

My race might actually be useful! :)

of course it will end up going away in the raid game, but it's something.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 4:14 PM   #19
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Gankin,March 16th, 2006 @ 2:04PM
Yeah. You won't generate rage while in combat anymore to prevent the bug that let you stay in combat and start a fight with 100 rage. So now the talent will just made you lose rage at 2 per tick instead of 2/3 per tick.
Unless they fix other bugs as well, you can still get to 100 Rage by staying in combat for 4 mins and casting Bloodrage 5 times. A lot more annoying without AM, but still something do to while your group rezzes/buffs.


United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 4:14 PM   #20
sekdar
Piston Honda
 
sekdar's Avatar
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by aertifact,March 16th, 2006 @ 5:39AM
Hey, let me start.

I recently got the Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros. I have been MS specced the whole time since I got it and even from lvl 40 I've been Arms specced. As you all prolly know, the one thing that blows with this weapon is the "mace specc" wich is utterly useless PvE wise(Except Strat, ZG.. easy anyways, right?). So I had the points spent in imp. Hamstring/Charge/Overpower, just for PvP.

My reasoning for not going fury before(w/ a 2h) is that I cant simply neglect the Sword/Axe/Polearm Specc. Now, that I can ignore the advantage from the arms three, I can reconsider the power of the fury three. Going fury, I will loose 2 skills(wich I will miss indeed); SS&MS, wich are really handy, but also very powerfull for trash/PvP and some boss encounters like Ebonroc. Other talents wich I must give up is rather sacrificable, like;




* Imp. OP



* Imp. Charge



* Imp. Hamstring(Ye I know, sucky sucky, but I find it rather funy and convinient)






So as you might understand I would like to hear from others wich have tryed out the fury three with a 2h, or even with this weapon aswell.

So my main questions;



* Any one tryed Fury with Hand of rag?



* Should I put points in imp. Slam? Since I allready find good use of slam w/MS, I guess it will be even more used with a Fury specc, or am I wrong?



* How much will my damage change(+/-)? If positive, how much? Is it worth it to gimp yourself for PvP? Cause you are, right?



* Would you require a certain amount of crit%/AP to make good use of Flurry/Bloodthirst?



* Do a more fun playstyle come with the Fury Three?





Regards,
I've tried 2h/arms, 2h/fury, DW/fury, and honestly 2h/fury impressed me the least. It's caught halfway between arms and dw fury. Arms favors the big burst, and DW favors sustained. 2h/fury offers a little bit more burst than DW (because you're using a 2h), and a little more sustained damage than arms (because of flurry), but shows off the true strengths of neither tree. The setup struck me as extremely awkward. It may come down to playstyle, but I abhor 2h/fury. I cannot understand why anyone would go fury without dual-wielding. And Aedak is smart, but don't take everything he says as inarguable truth.

As for the rest of your questions:

-Imp. Slam: With improved slam, you can chain cast it without any interference from the global cooldown. At least for warriors, GC is 1.0 seconds.

Having tried improved slam, I'm still convinced it is garbage. You can get very similar DPS results just repeatedly queuing HS and burning all of your instants, and save yourself the 5 talent points while doing it.

-DPS: By going 2h/Fury, you are going to give up a significant amount of PVP strength for what I consider a marginal increase in PVE dps. Mortal Strike is insanely popular not only because it is simple and straightforward, but because it works. Don't overlook that. I've played Fury for months, and the most agonizing part of it was always fighting healers, or enemy groups with healers. Multiple healers in an enemy group is a nightmare. That said, you can usually solve the problem, at least to a limited extent, by assisting off of an MS warrior.

It comes down to how much you PVP versus how much you PVE. It's a decision only you can make, really.

-Crit/AP are still just as important as in the Arms setup. You want as much of both as possible. Good numbers to shoot for for starting with fury are 1k self-buffed AP and 25+% crit. Less than that, and you're likely better off speccing arms until then.

-Playstyle definitely changes with fury. There is a bit of a learning curve, although more noticeable for DW fury. Instead of the "wait for rage, use MS/WW" style of Arms, Fury's playstyle is more akin to "use 5 different special attacks across the span of two seconds and wait for player's fingers to catch up." It's a lot of fun and playing Fury when juicing DPS as hard as you can or in a close group PVP matchup is incredibly frantic. You will never be without rage to use your desired attack, and Deathwish is a thing of beauty in both PVE and PVP.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 4:22 PM   #21
subscience
Great Tiger
 
subscience's Avatar
 
Orc Mage
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by sekdar,March 16th, 2006 @ 4:14PM
-Imp. Slam: With improved slam, you can chain cast it without any interference from the global cooldown. At least for warriors, GC is 1.0 seconds.
I was under the impression that only Rogues enjoyed 1.0s global cooldown while the other classes were at 1.5s.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 4:27 PM   #22
sekdar
Piston Honda
 
sekdar's Avatar
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by subscience,March 16th, 2006 @ 4:22PM
Originally Posted by sekdar,March 16th, 2006 @ 4:14PM
-Imp. Slam: With improved slam, you can chain cast it without any interference from the global cooldown. At least for warriors, GC is 1.0 seconds.
I was under the impression that only Rogues enjoyed 1.0s global cooldown while the other classes were at 1.5s.
Rogues enjoy a 1.0 second global cooldown on weapon swapping. Warriors definitely have a 1.0 second GC for attacks - copy to the test server and spec improved slam to see for yourself. I've heard that all melee classes have a 1.0 ability GC and casters have 1.5, but I haven't tested that.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 4:50 PM   #23
subscience
Great Tiger
 
subscience's Avatar
 
Orc Mage
 
Ner'zhul
Ok, thanks for the heads up. I might test this out tonight. :)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 4:58 PM   #24
• Belac_K
Evil Nazi Archeologist
 
Belac_K's Avatar
 
Undead Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by sekdar,March 16th, 2006 @ 3:27PM
Originally Posted by subscience,March 16th, 2006 @ 4:22PM
Originally Posted by sekdar,March 16th, 2006 @ 4:14PM
-Imp. Slam: With improved slam, you can chain cast it without any interference from the global cooldown. At least for warriors, GC is 1.0 seconds.
I was under the impression that only Rogues enjoyed 1.0s global cooldown while the other classes were at 1.5s.
Rogues enjoy a 1.0 second global cooldown on weapon swapping. Warriors definitely have a 1.0 second GC for attacks - copy to the test server and spec improved slam to see for yourself. I've heard that all melee classes have a 1.0 ability GC and casters have 1.5, but I haven't tested that.
I know Priests have a 1 sec GC, otherwise the 1.4 sec flash heal Prophecy set bonus would be pretty worthless.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 5:02 PM   #25
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
I believe all casting globals are 1sec, in the abscence of server/client lag.


United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 5:17 PM   #26
subscience
Great Tiger
 
subscience's Avatar
 
Orc Mage
 
Ner'zhul
Oh, and here's some numbers regarding Improved Demo Shout in regards to a more PvP environment.

I know a lot of 31 Arms / 20 Fury Warriors or 2H Fury Warriors who don't know where to spend their 6th-10th talent points in the Fury tree. Some go with Booming Voice and others with Imp. Demo Shout.

Well, I was curious myself as to how well Imp. Demo Shout works out in PvP, so here are some numbers.

Demo Shout: -140 AP
Imp. Demo Shout: -196 AP

A Warrior with an Unstoppable Force, 1000 AP, and 2/2 Impale vs. a target with 0% mitigation.

Average TUF damage: 233.5

No Demo Shout
Average Melee hit: 504.4
Average Melee crit: 1008.8
Average MS hit: 629.2
Average MS crit: 1384.2

Demo Shout
Average Melee hit: 466.9
Average Melee crit: 933.8
Average MS hit: 596.2
Average MS crit: 1311.7

Improved Demo Shout
Average Melee hit: 451.7
Average Melee crit: 903.4
Average MS hit: 583.0
Average MS crit: 1282.6

Damage difference between Demo Shout & Imp. Demo Shout
Average Melee hit: -15.2
Average Melee crit: -30.4
Average MS hit: -13.2
Average MS crit: -29.1


--


It makes sense that there is less damage reduction on MS from regular/improved Demo Shout due to the 3.3s weapon speed normalization (vs. the full 3.8s bonus on a regular melee swing).

Feel free to double check my numbers. :)
For the MS math, I used (average weapon damage) + (bonus MS damage) + (AP*speed / 14). Is this correct?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 5:21 PM   #27
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by subscience,March 16th, 2006 @ 5:17PM
For the MS math, I used (average weapon damage) + (bonus MS damage) + (AP*speed / 14). Is this correct?
yes, if "speed" is "normalized speed."


United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 5:23 PM   #28
subscience
Great Tiger
 
subscience's Avatar
 
Orc Mage
 
Ner'zhul
Whoops. Yea, I meant to say I used a 3.3 constant.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 5:40 PM   #29
Muraevin
Piston Honda
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Kilrogg
Sulf works great for fury, its a nice change of pace and was a considerable dps increase for me as far as pve goes. This was my spec with 2h fury (duel wield now) and if you miss imp charge you can go 2 points into intercept instead of one witch more than makes up for the loss.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...000000000000000

the biggest problem i have with fury is that you cant change back and forth between all dps and defiance without missing out on tact mastery and imp overpower, witch is very painfull for me :<

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/16/06, 6:28 PM   #30
Ultramax
Soda Popinski
 
Ultramax's Avatar
 
Troll Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Muraevin,March 16th, 2006 @ 4:40PM
the biggest problem i have with fury is that you cant change back and forth between all dps and defiance without missing out on tact mastery and imp overpower, witch is very painfull for me :<
Well now, isn't this interesting. Perhaps you can lend some support to my cause.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fury Maks Class Mechanics 1 04/04/07 5:48 PM
Trying out DW Fury in the near future... Kanan Public Discussion 7 08/09/06 6:04 PM
Call to Arms Umph Public Discussion 8 06/21/05 4:45 PM