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Originally Posted by Bean
I'm pretty surprised to see people with protection oriented builds without 1h spec, and with improved sunder instead. Of the "improved" talents, I would definitely say HS is better than sunder anyway (I often lose queued HSes by spamming other instants that pop up in the mean time). At any rate, the highest portion of our total threat generation comes from our white damage. Negating the defensive stance penalty is pretty substantial and noticeable.
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No offense but you are being stupid here, so much so that I'm assuming you're either retarded or trolling. White damage is the majority of our aggro? You have got to be kidding. I put out 70-120 dps... i'm aggroing over warriors doing 600 dps. That sure as hell isn't white damage aggro. If you don't believe this, we've tanked all of MC with grey level 1 longswords to screw around before and the aggro difference was literally not noticeable. Try it - go tank with a level 1 longsword, you'll do fine.
Heroic strike removes 15 rage (12 with talents), and on top of that it COSTS you the rage that you would've built otherwise on a regular attack. Therefore an HS is basically a 30 rage attack... and it is neither the best at rage/aggro or rage/time ratios (which are of course revenge and shield slam, respectively).
Furthermore, what is this nonsense about HS's being lost to other attacks? HS and every other warrior ability are on different timers... HS IS NOT A GLOBAL. You can HS, shield block, and shield slam as fast as your fingers can fly, and your weapon can swing.
Revenge and sunder are THE best tanking abilities when you do not have excess rage - in that situation you should burn off the excess rage with HS-Shield slams. 12 point sunder is the best tanking improvement you can make more or less for low rage situations. With better and better gear, youll find yourself without rage, a lot. Wasting it on heroic strike and losing the next attack generation is straight up stupid.
You use heroic strike in high, infinite, or excess rage burn-off situations only. Using it to tank trash or even many bosses will simply have you losing aggro to a good dpser... Trust me on this, cause I've tried it - but the math speaks for itself.
Also, 1 handed spec is stupid also. You put out maybe 70 DPS as a protection spec warrior with your weapon. Don't count shield slam in there. You're looking at a 7 to 10 dps increase for 5 talent points. Thats not special damage either... how is that going to compare to the warriors putting out 450 to 650 DPS on every mob? It won't even make a difference. So many better places to waste talent points. You'd be better off with unbridled wrath by leaps and bounds if you like wasting talent for aggro in that situation.
Threat level increasing abilities
Name ---------------------- Threat
Health gained
(from certain effects)---- 0.5
Mana gained
(from certain effects)---- 0.5
Healing done------------- 0.5
Damage dealt------------ 1
Rage gained-------------- 5
Demoralizing Roar------- 42
Faerie Fire----------------- 108
Demoralizing Shout------ 175
Cleave---------------------- 500
Distracting Shot---------- 600
Heroic Strike-------------- 890
Shield Bash---------------- 910
Sunder Armor------------ 1050
Revenge------------------ 1370
Shield Slam--------------- 1950
Look at the numbers.
Plain as day.
Revenge is the best rage to hate ratio ability, by far and away.
1 revenge, for 5 rage, is equal to 1370 points of white damage (yeah white damage aggro rules). Keep in mind its even higher if you have the new AQ20 variant.
Sunder is worth 1050. Thats over 500 DPS of white damage hate if you do nothing but spam sunder (and goes up as you add revenges, and burn rage off with SS and heroic strike, you generally can outpace about 650 with misses and everything - although being practical here ignores modifiers, but the point is still obvious).
Sunder and HS can both get to 12 rage with "improved" yet sunder will still be better for aggro per strike.
The advantage? Sunder doesn't REMOVE a rage generating attack, and it is instant. Furthermore, the DPS you provide by sundering is absurd.
If you don't believe me... check out
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Aggro
(Even has a nice summary of HS at the bottom), magically it says to only use HS to burn off rage. What a coinkydink.
04/02/06, 1:03 PM
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