The bigger model thing is correct, however I haven't really paid attention to mobs with smaller hitboxes like Kri. I got wfpwnt by his 5k cleave (enraged) a few nights ago, but I kinda blindly ran in when he was repositioned. My guess is that the cleave mechanic works the same, but the distance that target 2 has to be from the MT also remains unchanged, so its much easier to chain it around.

Edit: Grammar/Spelling, its too early. :(

Aside from the typical 'chaining cleave' mistakes that come from sloppy positioning at Vael/Ony/Nef, I too am a little bit puzzled as to how cleave works, particularly on mobs like Kri. We usually have one or two tanks facing Kri and the rest of the dps behind him, and inevitably some rogue gets oneshotted by a cleave regardless of distance or position. If his cleave prioritises targets facing him in melee range, then at least we can soak it up with tanks.

Try keeping all melee DPS at max, max melee range (and not directly in front of him, obviously).

Mob cleaves have different numbers of targets hit that they will "chain" to, and always hit the nearest targets to the initial target first. I have yet to notice a mob with a longer cleave range than another, but what you've observed with dragons like Vael versus other mobs (Warders, for instance) is easily explainable.

Just how far from the tank are you when you stand behind a Warder? I'd guess under 10 yards. Cleave range is measured from target to target when checking for chains. When fighting Vael, the MT can back up so that he's 20 or more yards away from the nearest person, so the cleave hits absolutely nobody.

If you told your MT on Vael to stand within about 5 yards from the center of his hitbox and put somebody 5 yards from the center on the opposite side, they'd probably get cleaved "behind" him, assuming they didn't get tailswept first.

The only thing mob size has to do with cleave is that with larger hitboxes, you can stand farther away. With [im]proper positioning, I've seen Vael cleave backwards plenty of times :)

With Kri this is exactly what I tried, but with a single tank facing him and 5 rogues behind at max range, at least one of us always gets smacked with a cleave.

Our rogues could probably speak to this subject better. I don't THINK Kri's cleave owns all our melee .... when he's Vengeanced (when we kill him last) he would kill all the DPS if this were the case, because his cleave would do 4k+ to leather with the buff.

I've definitely been drilled by Lord Kri's enraged cleave for 4500-5000 damage at least once so far, although it doesn't seem like its a big problem if your rogues stay away from the MT. We could have been getting lucky and having warriors eat the cleaves though.

According to the patch notes that changed the combat mechanics while fighting behind the target, I believe dodging was still possible, but parrying and blocking was not. Yet I still hear a lot of complaints about parried backstabs and the "you must be behind your target" deal from our resident dagger rogue.

We don't usually get cleaved as far as I've noticed, but we're always very careful to stay at max melee. Not sure what the difference would be. :(

Cleave is a chain effect based on distance from the target. The number of chained targets also varies per mob. Something like a Blackwing Legionnaire only hits up to 3 targets (Test it: put 1 warrior and 4 rogues right in front of it. 2 of the rogues will not be affected by cleave.) whereas Razorgore hits like 10 targets.

So essentially, it checks:

A) Distance from the target (tank.)
B ) Up to x number of targets that satisfy A.

Question here: Is vael's cleave significantly different than that of Ony and Nef mechanically? People refer to the "chain" cleave on vael a lot, as opposed to the other 2, but I've when you actually pay attention to your hp on Ony I've seen it happen there was well and gotten cleaved in odd places.

I've never seen this happen on Nef though, perhaps due to the model size.

Warrior cleaves can chain significantly at times, but i'm not sure whether they're determined by distance from targeted mob to secondary mob, or the angle made by targeted mob > player > secondary mob. I've gotten cleaves off where that angle is 90 degrees before.

Theoratically if distance only matters warriors could cleave behind them, or on top of them, but I've never seen that happen before.

I think people don't notice Ony's cleave nearly as much because of her large hitbox. Not only is your MT pretty far forward, but your dps can also be pretty far to the side. If you put a few people between the MT and your rogues, you'll see the cleave chain.

Vael on the other hand is pretty compact, and the distance between your rogues and your MT is usually significantly less, so if someone decides to stray away from where they should be, its a lot easier to chain the cleave.