I am sure you guys have had this discussion before, so if i am bring it up again i am sorry, but i am just trying to gather information.

Since my guild is currently moving into BWL alot of our shamans are trying to figure out why they should want TS over EF. From what i can tell... the Shaman will gain +healing and more Crit, the 5 piece bonus helps on healing spell also since they are nature correct.

Our shamans are in love with there EF Bonus's and really don't want to break them up. So anything you guys can provide me so that i can help my guild shamans out would be greatly appriciated.

If you compare the pieces, you're gaining a greater or similar bonus on each piece of Ten Storms compared to Earthfury even if it is +damage as well. Apart from the shoulders they all look to be clear cut upgrades to me. The 5 piece set bonus is great, but I understand that healers don't generally go oom these days?

Grr. 2% tonight. Dropping Monday.

I find that I only go out of mana on exceptionally long/messy fights and I wear a bunch of regen gear, so the chance on mana regen from the 5 piece effect is maybe one or 2 ticks of spirit.

One thing that might help their choices is the healpoints mod, http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=3019 its very lightweight and gives a good indication of the relative benefits per item.

But then again, I do pick and choose pieces based on the fight, so YMMV.

Seeing a pretty concrete number helps a healer make gear decisions. Healpoints was what got me out of using the earthfury 5 peice bonus.

The 8 piece TS bonus apparently stacks, so it's possible to get 3 or 4 lightning shields on everyone in the raid. Makes vael pretty hilarious.

Oaken speaks the truth.

Healers don't go out of mana once content is on farm status, for the most part. Earthfury 5 piece is far more beneficial than anything ten storms has to offer, aside from the fucking sweet ass graphics, plus the 3 piece is pretty effin sweet.

Personally go for 5 EF / w/e geared towards mana regen as priority. Unfortunately that means not wearing TS hat or shoulders in most cases, which makes you look a lot shittier than you could. :( But the endurance is what counts in a lot of situations. If you don't run dry in a fight, switch to ten storms. If you do... Well you need all the mana you can get.

Usually I suggest 5 EF + 3 TS.
The true question behind is: how much important is the mana regeneration vs +healing.

This is what I did some time ago:

"No stop casting": I suppose we cast LHW(6) ( 361 mana cost).

If a shaman has X mana/5 sec then he needs 361*5/X = 1805/X seconds to gain
another 361 mana to cast another LHW(6). After 1805/X sec the target then gain
~ +1000 healing ( the "free" cast ).
In that time a shaman casts: 1805/X/1.5 LHW(6) = 1203/X LHW(6).
Then to gain +1000 healing on 1203/X LHW(6) casted the +healing effective for
each cast should be: 1000/(1203/X) = (1000/1203)*X. Due the time normalization
the +healing has to be: (1000/1203)*X*3.5/1.5 ~= 2*X
This means the caster without Xmana/5sec has to have +2X Healing to have the
same healing in output.

So in case of non stop casting +2H = 1 mana/5sec

So if you have +70 mana/5sec = +140 healing.
This in case of no stop casting => after 25 secs he is OOM.

If you do a pause of 1.5 sec beetween each cast then +4H = 1 mana/5 sec
with a pause of 3 sec beetween each cast then +6H = 1 mana/5 sec.

Some time during a fight you need to rest more than 5 Secs to have the
regeneration due to your spirit, in that case with 6 sec of rest in that case:
+10 H = 1mana/5 sec.

So during the trash clean better have +Healing gear and for long fights
better mana/5 sec, and that are the numbers I have to say also that
if you do not cast always LHW(6) as we do not normally then the apport
of +healing is better.


K.

People stop taking things seriously and then good guilds wipe on wimpy content. True story.

HealPoints author here.
Very true. No matter what I do, a single number isn't going to tell the whole story about how good your talent spec and gear are for healing. Still I wanted to provide a single stat to give a quick indication and to assist less experienced healers.

Btw, if anyone here have ideas for a better way to compute healing goodness, let me know :)

Not quite true. The HealPoints stat is a combination of three substats:

PowerPoints - How much HP you can heal in 1 minute starting with full mana. First by chaincasting until all mana is gone (mana regen included). Then by casting a new spell as soon as its mana cost have been regenerated (mana + spirit regen). The HP value is calculated for the top rank of each of your burst spells (only HT for druids) and the max value is used.

EndurancePoints - How much HP you can heal in 5 minutes starting with 0 mana. Here values are calculated for all ranks of all burst spells. Max value used. Taken together, Power and Endurancepoints is how much HP you can heal in 6 minutes.

RegenPoints - How much mana you can regen in 3 minutes with mana + spirit regen.
(I'm pretty much ready to remove this stat)

So HealPoints isn't really about spamming the highest rank, it's about the maximum amount of HP you can heal. Often this is achieved by spamming the highest rank, but still :rolleyes:

It can often look that way, especially if you use HealPoints when you're not raidbuffed. And still if you're raidbuffed (and alliance), HealPoints is unable to detect BoW. If you manually add 30/33/40/whatever mana regen in the calculator, +healing tends to be valued comparatively higher.

I've personally found HealPoints to be a very reliable metric. Of course it isn't perfect, but the people with the highest HealPoints do tend to be those with the greatest healing capacity and longevity in tough fights. I value +heal more than a lot of shamans, and I gear heavily for it, yet I still have the most HealPoints of any shaman I've discussed the issue with (103k unbuffed), and am certainly happy with the results in practice.

Shamans using HealPoints?
Maybe I should get around to adding support for the 5 and 8 piece Earthfury bonus ;)

Change EndurancePoints to be a measure for the max HPS you can sustain indefinitely with downranked heals and whatever mana regen/spirit you have available?

For the Shaman thing, I've seen both +healing and +regen leveraged effectively. It seems like +regen would be the stronger of the two when (unlike other healing classes) you're spending a significant amount of mana on totems that don't benefit at all from +healing.

Please do it and do not forget the 10s 3 pieces one.

K.

I've considered something like that, but it's not completely straight-forward. As they are added together, there must exist a reasonable balance between PowerPoints and EndurancePoints. And if I use HP/S for EndurancePoints (500?), PowerPoints (30-40k?) would be all-dominant. Of course I could multiply HP/S by Pi (or some strange factor), but that would be pretty unintuitive. And the reasonable intuitivness of the current implementation, is something I'm rather keen on preserving.

Also, most fights don't last indefinitely B)

Support for this bonus was added back in version 1.5 so it should work already.
But as my shaman tester doesn't have ten storms, I've been unable to test if the bonus detection really works.
Use '/healpoints bscan' to get a listing in the console of the more exotic set/gear bonuses detected.
If the ten storms bonus isn't listed, send me a PM or something and I'll look into it.

Just out of curiosity, what are the HealPoints on Red Dragonscale Protector and Malistar's Defender, respectively? RDP has proven to be, well, unpopular in our guild.

Funny you ask. I've used RDP since July '05. When we did MC last weekend, Rag dropped a Malistar's and all shamans present had Malistar's/RDP already, so I snagged it as a free sidegrade to use in very long fights. I figured Malistar's would yield more healpoints due to the value of mana/5, but nope: RDP gives me 300 more healpoints than Malistar's.

If memory serves me correctly, the pre-1.10 version of Healpoints did value Malistar's Defender higher than the Red Dragonscale Protector (the version in question might have been 1.4 or 1.5 [I'd have to be on my home PC to check], so it has been upgraded since then). That said, I like having the two shields for different situations.

One of our Shamans still swears by his five piece Earthfury bonus, while others have moved on to mixes of Ten Storms, Earthfury and Stormcallers - I look forward to seeing the Earthfury bonus added into the calculations. 103k healing points is about as much as I've heard of for a Shaman, I'm around 100k and another Shaman in our raid group is around the same place - but he's a five piece Earthfury guy, so who knows how much that is worth in heal points.

8 piece TS is super bugged right now.

It does stack.

When proc'd on other players, the lightning orbs will deal 0 damage unless the shaman that proc'd the Lightning Shield has cast their self buff Lightning Shield on themselves, in which case the orbs from the TS set bonus will deal the same amount of damage that the shamans self buff Lightning Shield would deal.

And the best part? The damage from the lightning orbs causes threat for the shaman. We've had a couple of fun wipes after a shaman decided to buff the entire raid with Lightning Shields.

Yeah, the latest version factors in chain heal, which enhances the value of +healing to a shaman moreso than did old versions.

The set I wear is:

http://ctprofiles.net/32681

Aside from an Angelista's Charm (and a different shoulder enchant -- I figure I'll put +healing on the next pair of good healing mail shoulders I see) I think that's optimal given currently available gear (no Ouro/C'Thun drops).