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Old 04/28/06, 5:01 AM   #1
Daveth
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Mage
 
Aegwynn
I looked around but I couldn't find the spreadsheet or model that Kalman used to estimate the effectiveness of the various enchants for 1hand weapons. I do know that the math claims crusader is ahead, but is this true for fury warriors as well? Using CTS and Edge of chaos.

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Old 04/28/06, 9:45 AM   #2
dreadnor
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Archimonde
I havn't seen Kalmans spreadsheet/model but I am yet to see an accurate model of str vs crit that factors in flurry correctly.

Most the math you see on the issue is flawed in some way. For example, most people equate crusader to 25 strength (100 x (15/60)), however it should be slightly less since you can get overlaps.

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Old 04/28/06, 10:00 AM   #3
Breaksmith
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Draenor(EU)
But Flurry and using Special Attacks will raise the number of actual ppms above one. So it's not that simple either.


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Old 04/28/06, 10:52 AM   #4
Jo_
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
http://www.radiationnow.net/wow/enchant.xls

5th from the top: http://www.google.se/search?q=kalman+spreadsheet

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Old 04/28/06, 9:13 PM   #5
Kalman
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Only accurate for rogues. I have no clue how to model fury warrior math, and won't until mine hits 60... some day... in 2009.

Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.

Clearly law school has done wonders for me.

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Old 04/28/06, 9:16 PM   #6
Kalman
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Originally Posted by dreadnor,April 28th, 2006 @ 7:45AM
I havn't seen Kalmans spreadsheet/model but I am yet to see an accurate model of str vs crit that factors in flurry correctly.

Most the math you see on the issue is flawed in some way. For example, most people equate crusader to 25 strength (100 x (15/60)), however it should be slightly less since you can get overlaps.
Actually, it should be more on the mainhand, since you proc it more frequently than once per minute. Depending on +hit and weaponspeed, for DW (assuming all attacks are Slice and Dice/Flurried) Crusader can scale pretty high; for 10% +hit and a 2.8 speed mainhand weapon, a rogue will proc Crus enough to keep it up around 40% of the time.

On the offhand, SnD/Flurry assumed constantly up and 10% +hit pretty much eliminates the penalty for overlaps.

All that data is derived from a Monte Carlo simulator I wrote to test the Crusader uptime; if you have access to MATLAB (or probably on scilab, which is free, but untested for compatibility) you can run it with your own rogue's numbers/gear to get the answer for you. Send me a PM, or an email (kalman@radiationnow.net) if you want the simulator code.

Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.

Clearly law school has done wonders for me.

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Old 04/29/06, 11:58 AM   #7
dreadnor
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Archimonde
Originally Posted by Breaksmith,April 28th, 2006 @ 8:00AM
But Flurry and using Special Attacks will raise the number of actual ppms above one. So it's not that simple either.
Does crusader proc off of specials? Regardless I do agree that the uptime would be higher than what I previously thought due to flurry if nothing else.

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Old 04/29/06, 1:00 PM   #8
• Wodin
Thoroughly Inebriated
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
Yes, it does. Which is why warriors with a big 2H weapon almost always have it up - it's getting a percentage based on a swing every 3.8s but then the warrior makes 4 swings in 4s(MS/WW/autoattack, autoattack) and almost guarantees a proc.

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Old 04/29/06, 5:09 PM   #9
Elby
Glass Joe
 
Undead Priest
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by dreadnor,April 28th, 2006 @ 7:45AM
Most the math you see on the issue is flawed in some way. For example, most people equate crusader to 25 strength (100 x (15/60)), however it should be slightly less since you can get overlaps.
Crusader stacks with itself.

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Old 04/29/06, 6:33 PM   #10
Kalman
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Originally Posted by Elby,April 29th, 2006 @ 3:09PM
Originally Posted by dreadnor,April 28th, 2006 @ 7:45AM
Most the math you see on the issue is flawed in some way. For example, most people equate crusader to 25 strength (100 x (15/60)), however it should be slightly less since you can get overlaps.
Crusader stacks with itself.
No.

Crusader stacks if you have it on both MH and OH and both proc. If MH or OH proc while a MH or OH proc is still running, all it does is reset the timer.

Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.

Clearly law school has done wonders for me.

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Old 04/30/06, 3:19 AM   #11
Umph
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Umph
Tauren Druid
 
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Originally Posted by Kalman,April 30th, 2006 @ 7:33AM
Originally Posted by Elby,April 29th, 2006 @ 3:09PM
Originally Posted by dreadnor,April 28th, 2006 @ 7:45AM
Most the math you see on the issue is flawed in some way. For example, most people equate crusader to 25 strength (100 x (15/60)), however it should be slightly less since you can get overlaps.
Crusader stacks with itself.
No.

Crusader stacks if you have it on both MH and OH and both proc.
I think that's what he was saying :).

Edit: MH + OH procs happened to me once in a blue moon, so much so that I barely noticed it untill I got a bloodthirst noticeably larger than normal.

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Old 04/30/06, 3:29 AM   #12
Ultramax
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Troll Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Why would you dual wield you have Sulfuras.

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Old 04/30/06, 10:59 PM   #13
Umph
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Umph
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Before I had that!

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Old 05/01/06, 12:57 AM   #14
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer> Emeritus
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Kalman,April 28th, 2006 @ 7:16PM
if you have access to MATLAB (or probably on scilab, which is free, but untested for compatibility) you can run it with your own rogue's numbers/gear to get the answer for you.
Is this some sort of free program that runs MATLAB scripts?

Links: Moonkin Resto WoWMath Twitter YouTube
Please don't PM requests for advice on UI or specific gear choices.

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Old 05/01/06, 1:47 AM   #15
Kalman
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Originally Posted by Arawethion,April 30th, 2006 @ 10:57PM
Originally Posted by Kalman,April 28th, 2006 @ 7:16PM
if you have access to MATLAB (or probably on scilab, which is free, but untested for compatibility) you can run it with your own rogue's numbers/gear to get the answer for you.
Is this some sort of free program that runs MATLAB scripts?
http://scilab.fr

It's MATLAB-ish - no guarantees a particular mfile script will run on Scilab, but it's *fairly* compatible and typically requires only a little effort to convert a script from one to the other. I may switch over to Scilab at some point for doing my analysis scripting, since I don't have a copy of MATLAB on my WoW machine and sending all my textfiles to work for analysis (not to mention working on scripts at work...) is a bit dodgy.

But, basically - free, mostly compatible. YMMV, but it's a pretty cool project, and beats the hell out of Octave.

Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.

Clearly law school has done wonders for me.

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