SquattingCow

I think a debuff gets applied to him that increases all damage taken by 5000%. Which explains why I did a mindblast for 30,000 last night.

 

probiscus

Can I semi-derail this by asking a PW DPS question? Specifically regarding "Badge of the swarmguard".

I told all our rogues (who have it) to use it on Razuvius last night, and they remarked positively on its' functionality. For the rogues topping DM on patchwork, given the 3m cooldown on Badge and the 6+ minute fight timer, did any of you bother to use this item? Or is PW's armor too low already to bother with it.

If it *is* worth getting, I'd like to try and make the case to the other class officers for rogue preference (in the short term) for this item, which is why I'm asking. As a caveat we're pretty short tanks these days, so I don't believe we have a regular fury warrior who can come close to our rogues DPS. And AFAIK this thing is worthless for mages (our next best DPS class).

My apologies for the derail - didn't think this was worth a new post.

 

◊ chalon

Hmm, maybe I should stop slacking and try to model badge of the swarmguard!

For me personally, I use my active trinket on Kiss of the Spider, and my inactive trinket is DFT.

 

probiscus

I'm poor, and am new to the raiding scene (if you want to call emps such), so I'm stuck with BhB / HoJ - and after last nights purchase I'm dead broke -but I would have been next in line for DFT. Badge of the Swarmguard however is one of those things that very few people are interested in, add to that the fact that it was broken when it first came out... However I went so far as to dedicate our lowest DPS rogue as an expose armor bitch on our razu fight last night (first kill) - seemed to work well.

 

◊ chalon

Ok, if we assume that over the course of the 30s of Badge the AC reduction averages out to ~600 (it could be more someone let me know, heh), that means 30s out of every 3m, you are reducing the AC of the enemy by 600. Which in turn means that over time/sustained, the AC reduction is about 100. Now to figure out how much damage that translates into.

 

probiscus

Well, its my understanding (and I'll confirm w/ one of our rogues this evening) that the effect, when piling up to the full stack (6 self buffs) it actually keeps refreshing, so that 6th self-buff will last the full 30 sec duration. With an 80% proc rate, you're getting the effect stacked pretty quickly, however I would think for modeling purposes you could assume a higher weighted average armor reduction than 600. My gut tells me something in excess of 1000. Also obviously the armor value of your target will determine the marginal utility of the trinket, which is the reason why I asked about PW's AC (which I seem to remember as "low to zero"). Because if faerie fire and sunder (I'll assume you don't CoR him) can remove all of his armor, there's really no point in this particular instance.

 

◊ chalon

Initial verdict: assuming that my ~600 AC over the duration is a reasonable number, Badge of the Swarmguard is approximately on the same level of Earthstrike in terms of sustained DPS.

I'll post v1.12 in a sec.

 

◊ chalon

I don't think FF + Sunder + CoR removes all of Patchwerk's armor. Hmm, the cooldown refreshes? Interesting...I guess I'll go with um 800 maybe?!

 

Un

Thanks for the updates Chalon :)

BotS - My math skills are downright laughable, but I think ~600 is an underestimate for a sustained dps fight. Assuming SnD+BF, and an 80% procrate on the BotS buff stacks, is it fair to say that after 10 seconds you should have the maximum buff of -1200ac to your current target? If so, 2/3 of 1200 = 800. However, even if you calculate it at -800ac, that doesn't account for the gradual buffs you get in the first 10 seconds as you build to 6 stacks.

Even from my perspective as a math reject, BotS seems like a really difficult trinket to model. I'm guessing it would be very easy misrepresent it.

EDIT: Although it almost seems as though, in order to be accurate, you'd need BotS to somehow be dependent upon your weapon speed. Daggers will probably stack to maximum buff quicker than swords.

 

◊ chalon

Well, either way the modelling for it isn't going to be perfect, like anything else the actual performance is at the mercy of the PRNG. The best we can do is estimate how it would work out over the long term, if you could DPS perfectly forever.

 

◊ chalon

Re: Swords vs. Daggers, yeah. But I don't care about Swords :P.

 

◊ chalon

v1.12 - 7/14/2006
-Fixed small bug with haste table on dream buffed DPS
-Fixed the madcap bonus not adding 20 AP to the buffed stats
-Added Vile and Improved Poisons, since some Combat Dagger builds potentially will have those in 1.12
-Added a rough version of Badge of the Swarmguard -- need more info on proc rate, for now just assuming that you average -800 AC over the 30s. I'd say it's better than Earthstrike, not as good as DFT/Slayer's/Kiss.
-Fixed +dagger nextstat on buffed DPS

http://www.savefile.com/projects/299694

 

Samurai

Just a quick question, Am I able to adjust the attack power value you use for windfury since you stated that it is now showing as if the shaman has the talented version.

I can see where the data is in the Wep enchants sheet, but no way to alter it easily.

 

Veng

I could be mistaken, but I believe they changed Badge of the Swarmguard so that each time "Insight of the Quiraji" stacks the debuff does not reset. This would mean the duration of the trinket is only 30 seconds.

 

probiscus

Our rogue with it never logged on last night for Naxx, but I am still trying to get ahold of him to confirm regarding whether or not it refreshes the timer.

 

zkygge

It doesn't reset the timer when you gain Insight of the Quiraji.

 

probiscus

Confirmed this evening. You get 30 sec, that's it.

I guess it used to reset, but not anymore.

 

Bleedo

For completeness (and because I use it over firewater, heh) you may want to add Juju might - (40 AP, doesn't stack with firewater).

Oh and all of the Juju buffs are attainable by alliance now as well, so might wanna move them to a different section! (Again, just for completeness)

http://www.bleedo.net/Signatures/bleedo.php
http://www.bleedo.net
http://www.vismaior.org

 

Royksopp

This is far from an informative post that'll help further the utility of this spreadsheet, but I'd like to thank you guys for putting so much work into it. It's really helped me plan for my gear post-BWL.

 

Vanick

The Badge of the Swarmguard works by giving you a 30 second buff. The effect has always been 30 seconds max. Prior to 1.11 the Insight of the Qiraji buff was listed as a 30 second buff which refreshed to 30 seconds each time the Swarmguard buff procs. However, when the Swarmguard buff expires the Insight of the Qiraji buffstack is removed as well. Now the Insight of the Qiraji buff has no timer associated with it, but it is still tied to the Swarmguard buff.

 

Lefty

Any chance there is an update to the swords spreadsheet in the works sometime?

 

Valar

I'm still interested in and working on an update for the sword spreadsheet. A few weeks ago it got corrupted somehow but since then I've managed to redo most of the lost changes.

The hold up right now is getting the energy useage working without circular references in excel. I'll go ahead and use some static values for the cycle (such as a 52 second length) and finish the rest up for a release tomorrow.

 

◊ chalon

Well...I was going to upload versions 1.14 of the dagger sheet, but savefile uploads seem to be messed up atm.

Does anyone know of a good/free file hosting site similar to savefile? I suppose I could host it on my own web space but I'd prefer a site similar to savefile.

Anyways, here's a preview of the changes in 1.14:

 

• frmorrison

I remember filecloud.com being a good file site, but I don't remember if you had to register to download (you do have to register to upload).

Thanks for keeping this updated!

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Valar

Here's the updated sword sheet, I couldn't find any issues with it and hopefully only a few crop up. Right now it lacks the badge of the swarmguard, 1.12 sword spec changes, and mace/fist support. It shouldn't take too long to add those and name the release 1.0.
http://mysite.verizon.net/inglix/combat_swords_rc3.xls