then why does offhanding the Iblis actually lower your DPS as compared to offhanding the corehound tooth ?

If you have an equal number of Dagger and Sword skill, Iblis is an upgrade. As I said, currently I think Weapon Ex +skill in the spreadsheet isn't actually affecting sword skill, as it should be.

ah just making some clarifications chalon. Just wanted to make sure offhanding a dagger doesnt directly affect your crit percentage as compared to some tests made by others than offhanding a dagger produces more crit

not the largest sample size but maybe others can make some tests regarding this ?

I dont think there's any confusion regarding this. If you're dagger specced, an offhand dagger benefits from the 5% crit talent, while an offhand sword doesnt.

So, if you have an offhand dagger, you'll have a higher crit rate on normal swings, than if you were offhanding a sword.

Actually, there is confusion. The fact that it's a flat 5% crit difference between Dagger/Sword and Dagger/Dagger is somewhat worrisome, to say the least, for a few different reasons.

1. Swords are slower than daggers, in general. As such, one would expect fewer OH crits with an offhand sword, and thus the total crit difference would be less than 1/2 the difference of OH vs. MH swings

2. Why is it a flat 5 (well, 5.2)? Does your MH swing not benefit from 5% crit if your offhand is not a dagger? Seems to me that some experimentation with single MH swings (ie. Sinister Strike) is in order.

Offhand damage only.

Say, your base crit with gear is X. With 5/5 Dagger Spec, each of your normal MH swings will have a (X+5)% chance of critting. If you use an OH dagger, your OH swings will have an (X+5)% chance of critting, whereas, for an OH sword/mace, the OH swings will have an X% chance of critting.

However, there are some inconsistencies in the screenshot(which I admittedly missed earlier) - Kytarewn listed them out.

cool, thanks for the input, basically what i would like to ask if iblis is truly an upgrade as to the core hound tooth when it comes to offhanding a sword with at least 4/5 dagger spec

Currently, as Chalon said, the Ex +skill factor isnt correctly affecting sword skill. I tried directly playing around with the MH Glancing Factor and OH Glancing Factor values, and -

With 310 daggers, 305 swords (ACL, 2/2 Ex) - Yes, Iblis is an upgrade to CHT, though relatively minor.
With 305 daggers, 305 swords (No ACL, 2/2 Ex) - Iblis is a large upgrade over CHT.

You can try out the other combos...Human Racial, Death's Sting MH etc to check the results.

This may have already been posted, or I may have an older version of the spreadsheet so this isn't relevant anymore, but I think the "the next one" calculations are wrong.

Example/
My unbuffed DPS stats list my next AP as worth 4.676 DPS. That seems high. The str and agi are on par with that calculation, but the hit, crit, and +dagger all seem more accurate, at ~+7 dps each. My buffed DPS stats, however, list my next AP as worth .189 DPS, which seems almost accurate, but still has str and agi at ridiculous numbers, listing my next str as worth 6.6691 dps. This also completely messes up the equivalence chart to the right of that, saying things like 1 crit = 1.62 agi which I know is wrong.

For reference, the filename on my excel sheet is [savefile]060721004420_combat_daggers_v1_14.xls

Edit: Or is this a known issue related to Hand of Justice?

Hmm, Hand of Justice by itself seems to be ok. There must be some item or buff that's breaking the next stat calculations though. Can you list out item for item what you have? And buffs also?

Deadly poison *can* be the highest DPS thing to put on your weapon (excluding my beloved windfury), provided you can keep it stacked to 5. However, it costs the raid a debuff slot, and if you have more than one rogue with deadly poison, they stack on the same solitary debuff (unless you are using different ranks of DP, and the lower ones aren't as good), so it's probably not beneficial to have more than one rogue using Deadly Poison V. I've never really done any extensive testing to see what it takes to keep it stacked to 5, but the last time I used it, it was getting knocked off all the time by other debuffs. I just use instant nowadays.

I have a Warblade of the Hakkari in the offhand, and changing that to a dagger makes the numbers become a lot more realistic. After further testing, I get the wack 4dps per AP stats with any of the swords in the OH, while having a dagger makes them look a lot closer to actual.


At any rate, full list:
Fang of the Faceless with +5
Warblade of the Hakkari with +15 agi
Striker's Mark
Foror's Eyepatch with Death's Embrace
Onyxia Tooth Pendant
Zandalar's Madcap Mantle with Zandalar Signet of Might
Zandalar Madcap's Tunic
Nightslayer Belt
Bloodfang Pants with Death's Embrace
Blooddrenched Footpads with +7 stam
Bracers of the Eclipse
Blooddrenched Grips with +7 agi
Cape of the Black Baron with +3 agi
Seal of Jin
Band of Jin w/ Set Bonus
Blackhand's Breadth
Hand of Justice

Human

Fortitude, Mark of the Wild, Battle Shout, Trueshot Aura
Blessing of Kings, Blessing of Might

Zandalar two piece bonus

For the record, this happens on both the buffed tab and the unbuffed tab.

More or less, rogues need to organize who is ussing the deadly poison. Its gonna be a single rogue per fight. If the other rogues care much about the 3-5 dps (or whatever it is) you can alternate. That said..

Anub: Instant
Faerlina: Deadly
Maexxna: Deadly
Rasuvius: Deadly
Noth: Deadly*
Patch: Deadly
Grob: Instant
Gluth: Deadly

I havnt fought Thadius yet but I assume, barring no immunities, Deadly would be ideal there to.

*There have been times after the teleport that a tick has caused Noth to come right back to me (and the main tank). Added perk, although Hunters seem to pull it the majority of the time.

I never finished really testing it out, but one possible alternative to one Rogue going DP/IP is two Rogues going IP/DP. It has more uptime at 5 procs then, but doesn't waste as many procs as two DP/IP would.

Just beware that, like Ignite, it would make Damage Meters inaccurate as if I start the DP with one proc and the second Rogue follows it with four procs, I'll still be doing all the damage.

I got lazy and just started using IP/IP most of the time anyway, hence me never really seeing what was better.

Ugh, so a slight derail here (my apologies but I didn't want to make a new topic just for it). So my guild is relatively new to MC (Started mid july) and we're up to Rag. Last night the ACLG drop, and NONE of our dagger rogues roll on it (even the combat dags), with everyone screaming they are "shard gloves"; subsequently, two nexus crystals are obtained. WHY!??!?! I tried to reason with them (spreadsheet and all) but they would have nothing of it. Anyone have any advice on how I can somehow convince them how you know...that ACLG cut down half of the reduction from GLANCING BLOWS?! Unless I fell into some alternate universe, i'm pretty sure they're...good :)

Thanks a lot for your continued work on the spreadsheet.

Would it be possible to add a Troll Berserking option, where you can set the percentage of your life (for instance, I'll be below 40% for an entire Patchwerk fight, but 100% for Twin Emps)? I'd really like to see how much the ability increases my DPS on various fights :)

What precisely does Berserking do again?

10 energy, doesn't incur global CD, scaling haste from 10-30% depending on HP level. (Max haste is, I believe, around 33% life, 10% is at full HP.) 3m CD.

You get the full effect of berserking -- 30% haste, when you're below 40% HP.

I love this spreadsheet! There's an error in one of the items in the 1.14 version. The Ebon Mask is listed as having +1% to hit, and everything I've seen indicates it is actually +1% crit.

You are right, it gives 1 to crit.

Is this the same guy that did the weapon swap mod? I have used it forever, and still do even though I use ItemRack (Too lazy to make a new macro).