+skills is capped at +10? I was under the impression that it went up to +15 >.> My bad I guess.

Hmm... Part of me is starting to regret getting Claw of the Black Drake, but not much I can do.

Sorry to "derail" this thread, but is there a rogue hemo spreadsheet in the works? There's a bunch of talk about hemo rogues now keeping up with combat sword/dagger rogues on the WoW rogue forums and I want to see if there's any real validity in their claims.

As I understand it: the effect of +skills on glancing blows ends at 310 skill, at which point you stop losing white damage to glancing blows. The other effects of +skills keep going, but they are much less significant than the glancing blow reduction.

@Royksopp:
Yeah, I respeced hemo to try out how it was in PvP, and I'm finding that I place very well on damage meters (though, our only combat dagger rogue was mia this past week, so I can't tell how well it is that regard)

@Belindra:
I thought that the glancing blow reduction went up to 15, thats where I was confused. This does change some things for me. Anubisath/SPH would probably get better DPS then CoTBD/DoVS while I'm hemo on Bosses... Perhaps I'll get Anubisath.... dunno. Thanks for the input though.

I'm certainly not going to work on a Hemo spreadsheet, but maybe someone else will. You lose all kinds of DPS talents assuming you go a standard Sub/Ass hemo build that you aren't going to place anywhere near a deep Combat Specced rogue.

Thanks, chalon.

Er, yeah, heh thanks for adding that. I kind of have been slacking on updates recently :(.

As for your earlie rpost, yeah the place I was using in between savefile was really bad. But I figure Savefile is mostly okay. What do people think?

I completely agree. Actually I have not had any problems with Savefile yet, so I did not understand why you switched at all.

Since I maintain the CP/energy sheet on savefile, I can answer this one: for a little while, savefile was basically unusable. It was either completely not functional, such that no one could access the data, or just mostly non-functional, such that I couldn't update the data already uploaded.

A kind of side-question, how long are people waiting on the typical tank'n'spank fights before popping ES / BF / AR as a dagger spec now?

We have 2 rogues who seem to be afraid of using AR on the first ES / BF combo, making it into:
ES/BF -1min-> AR -1min-> ES/BF -2min-> ES/BF -1min-> AR/ES/BF.

And on Twin Emps, despite being alliance (Blessing of EZMode)... and as far as im aware using some of the extra energy on a feint or 2 in the process, either of them tends to pull agro off the MT when using the AR/ES combo (im assuming not using BF here as its not dependable that you can use it all the time).. and its a cert that if they get to use all 3... boom :<

On their weapons... one has Max Fang/Pugio, other DS/Harbinger and both still use ACLG... =o

I would recommend them using KTM threat meters to get a better feel for threat, AR can be dangerous to the Rogue's health if used with ES/BF too early.

I used to use it around 70%, then vanished.


Also, ACLG are really that good on boss fights.

According to the spreadsheet, Deadly poison generates about 10 more dps than Instant Poison . Is this only effective if it is duel deadly poisons and does it have to be stacked 5 times for that benefit? Also how does it work with multiple rogues using deadly poisons? Thanks in advance for the info.

Also, you may get synergy from curse of shadows, shadowbolt crits, and shadow weaving. The other trees seem like they got a bit more love than combat, but the 41 point talent has potential.


I noticed in the latest version of the swords sheet that the 8 piece bloodfang proc is only computed off your base mainhand attacks (excluding sinister strikes) and doesn't factor in offhand strikes. Is there a reason why that changed? I had always thought it could proc off special attacks and your offhand hits.

Only one Rogue can use DP5, since all rogue will share the same debuff slot. But you can use multiple Ranks, so one using 5, and another using 4, but IIRC IP6 > DP4. Personally when i don't get Windfury or we are playing it safe with TA... i will use DP5 and IP6.

I was wondering this same thing. If i remember what Kalman wrote a while back, BHB may beat out HoJ in terms of raw DPS if HoJ is not a true instant attack (which we already know).

However, has anyone actually been able to calculate HoJ's DPS when its not a true instant attack, but a forced MH attack? I know it probably will be pretty tough to calculate this, but even a rough estimation would be nice. =)

Just a note, I have decided to quit my addiction of WoW, so unsurprisingly I will no longer be doing any more updates to this spreadsheet.

If anyone wants to carry on the torch and continue with updates, feel free. Goodbye and good luck :).

:(

In this case I'm rooting for the drug. Thanks for all the work.

Darn, now with the new BC talents, how can I find out that they are crap? :D

And thank you for your great work.

As far as I know, HoJ has always been modelled as a forced MH attack, ie. you get full dps off MH procs (if it procced off your MH, you don't lose anything from getting your swing timer reset) but only half dps off OH and special procs (to account for the fact that, on average, half the time it procs right before you would have swung anyway, resulting in effectively 0 dps gain, and the other half the time it procs right after you swung, resulting in a truly "free" extra attack)

As I understand it, the change in 1.12 was that how soon your swing timer was reset after a sword spec/HoJ proc was affected by latency, but I'm not sure if that's modellable at all, considering it depends on your own individual latency and server load.

DP is higher DPS, but it takes up a debuff slot. I believe with the AQ rank, a 5 point stack will do 170/3 seconds which equals 57 DPS. Max rank corruption on a well geared warlock does about 77 DPS. Serpent sting on the other hand is only 37 DPS, hmm, maybe I'll tell our hunters to stop using that shitty debuff.

So it may be worth using - depends on your raid configuration and debuff control.

What a shame! But cheers for all the massive work put into it! I hope someone as capable as you continue working on it!

Just a small bump; Is there anyone out there who is planning on continuing this brilliant piece of work? I don't have the math or excel proficiency to do this... I hope there's someone out there with the skills and the time ;)