• Wodin

The tooltip lies. Get naked, bust out a poinard or other very narrow damage-range dagger, and you'll see that Opportunity and Aggression do boost their respective abilities.

 

Staarkhand

Should have figured. Thanks for the info.

 

Garfunkel

Very nice spreadsheet, I can only imagine the amount of time you invested in this, my hats off to ya. I've got a DPS spreadsheet of my own (though not nearly as elaborate as yours, requires a lot more personal input and prior understanding of how the spreadsheet works, hence why for now it's just for my own personal use) that I've been comparing to yours (albeit mine is based off Combat Sword/Fist, but many of the same principles apply).

I've only begun to scratch surface, as there's so much to go through, but something I noticed while looking at your calculations for Windfury (being an Undead Rogue the WF + SoE Totem vs. BoM/BoK/MH Psn debate has always been of great interest to me), I think I found a small error. Now of course there's a chance I overlooked something, but looking at it, under the Wep. Enchants Sheet at Cell T29 where the Average WF hit (before hit/crit/glancing) is calculated, it looks like you're taking the Avg MH damage Pre-WF and adding 315/14. The 315/14 only gives the DPS bonus, so you'd have to take this value and multiply it by the MH weapon speed to give the actual damage added to your normal MH average. Let me know if I've overlooked something in regards to this, but otherwise I'll continue to look through the calculations and post with any feedback. Again, kudos for an awesome job with this spreadsheet :).

 

Staarkhand

The dps increase from 'the next' +dagger is only accounting for the changes +skill makes to hit/crit/dodge, and not accounting for glancing blow factors. This is apparent when the dps increase from 'the next' +dagger is the same when your current weapon skill is 300 vs 310.

The error appears to be on the NextStat page, which takes its Glancing Factor straight from the DPS pages without accounting for the +1 to dagger skill.

 

◊ chalon

Ah crap, you're totally correct here. This actually makes Windfury better than what I thought :P.

I see what you're saying, will look into fixing it.

Yes, it was in the Bonescythe thread:

 

◊ chalon

Bleh, and looking at the Windfury stuff I wasn't taking into account other buffs for the buffed amount, will have to change how that works.

 

Hallie

Any chance these two spreadsheets could be combined, with a small checkbox combat daggers/sword? :P

 

◊ chalon

RC6 is up and good to go, gogo fast turnaround time:

 

◊ chalon

Probably not, I'd rather keep two separate, but semi-sane spreadsheets as opposed to having one kludge of a spreadsheet mess :P.

 

Garfunkel

If only Blizzard was this quick in responding to feedback... :D

 

probiscus

Seriously, I know I'm new here and am trying to stay quiet, but this spreadsheet is amazing. I'm one of a few new rogues to the guild I'm in - and this has already saved me a *ton* of DKP in BWL. The other rogues are snapping up taut dragonhide, epic bows, etc - while I'm able to save for items that will have more than a 1 DPS increase over my current get up. Thanks so much for putting this together!

/resumes lurking

 

roq

Looks like all the "The Next One" numbers are messed up. My are all evaluating to negatives right now.

Edit: It happens when you put WF on your MH weapon.

 

◊ chalon

Oops, fixed in 6.1 :P.

 

◊ chalon

I think I broke something in 6.1 or so, looking at it.

 

◊ chalon

6.2

 

Xaxoz

Finally a dps calculator that takes everything into consideration, awsome work there. Im truely amazed by the dedication and time you guys have done, to make this avaliable to the public.

Sadly im not able to use this awsome piece of work myself, since loyal towards my 20/31 build. But couldnt help noticing some great posts my kalman on the official US rogue forum. So I am wondering and without any doubt praying and hoping you guys will make a similar masterpiece, featuring the 20/31 build.

Is there any chance this will happen, and if so are you guys able to maybe roughly estimate when it would be avaliable to the public.

 

Undu

Nice spreadsheet, now if someone would actually make one for fury warriors/warriors in general. >.<

 

deric

While we are (or were) on the subject of formulae, any chance you could explain your HoJ formula?

Right now, in your spreadsheet, the HoJ contribution looks like this:

(Q12+Q14/2)*Q11*H2 for MH and specials

and (Q13/2)*Q11*H2 for OH

where Q11 is the proc chance per hit, Q12 is number of MH hits per sec, Q13 is number of OH hits per sec, Q14 is number of backstab hits per sec, and H2 is the average dps of a MH hit, taking into account misses, dodges, glancing blows, crits and normal hits

I would personally model HoJ as:

Q12*Q11*H2 for MH

Q13*Q11*H2 for OH

and Q14*Q11*H2 for specials

Is there any reason why only half the number of hits from the OH and backstabs is taken into account for HoJ procs?

 

◊ chalon

Well, I didn't actually do that particular formula, but I asked Valar about it, basically it's just a rough approximation of lost main hand swings with the assumption that the "extra attack" resets your main hand swing timer. If it is such that HoJ DOESN'T reset the MH swing timer, then the formulas would be as you wrote. I don't think any conclusive testing has been done on the swing timer reset (or lack thereof), so it is conjecture in that regard.

 

rochan

Very cool spreadsheet. I have thought of a few items you could add (namely trinkets):
Darkmoon card Maelstrom & Heroism
Rune of the Dawn (assuming fighting undead)

Thanks :)

 

• frmorrison

Maelstrom is nearly worthless in MC, and Heroism does no damage, so it doesn't have a place on a DPS spreadsheet.


Rune of the Dawn (81 AP on undead) would seem to be a good idea because Nax has a just a few undead in it or the undead in Nax will be a different creature type :(.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Diabolique

Here goes the dumbest question ever. Why not 15 agi on ACL instead of 7 Wodin?

 

Kytrarewn

Here's another stupid question that I've been wondering about: Use of Thistle Tea in sustained PvE encounters, specifically those on which Aggro is not really a concern at all (see Ebonroc, Chromaggus, and, to a certain extent, Flamegor). I tend to have a bit of trouble "getting up to speed" compared to certain of my colleagues, and, as Wodin has noted, 16/25/10 has the weakness of being very susceptible to "dodged/parried/blocked backstabs".

I figure that, instead of getting two backstabs off and waiting four seconds for my energy to begin my SnD cycle, which will be tough to break out of and move to a 4-5CP cycle, at least in my experience, that would allow me to start off with a 3SnD cycle with energy to begin my SnD immediately, plus some bonus energy to break out of the low CP cycle and move to a higher CP cycle.

It's idiotic that I've just started thinking about this now, but I was wondering whether the use of Thistle Tea in PvE was common or uncommon.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.

 

Dias

The top Rogues in my guild use it on boss fights, but were fairly competitive.

 

Elerion

You'll probably have to work real fast as a warrior to keep aggro from a rogue that opens the fight with backstab, backstab, tea, backstab, but I can definitely see the use on fights where you enter at a point of high tank threat.