Then I checked Kalman's Excel about MH-Enchants found here: http://www.radiationnow.net/wow/enchant.xls . For DPS, critrate and hitrate I just used the numbers from the DPS-spreadsheet, for armor mitigation I used 0,8 as in the spreadsheet (although for the relative order of these three enchants armor mitigation should not matter). According to Kalman's Excel the order is
So which Excel is right, and where are the errors?
Assuming you're alliance here. Kalman's enchant spreadsheet doesn't take into account Blessing of Kings, last I checked. Crusader and 15 agi both get a little bit of a boost from BoK, whereas +5 does not, thus the reason the numbers are higher.
Are you planning to add ZHC and Renatakis into the sheet?
ZHC, no we won't be adding that any time soon I don't think. Rentaki could be added, if you basically just assume it's 1 extra backstab every 2 minutes...eg., a 5% increases to your backstab DPS.
I feel compelled to note, however, that Slayer's Crest is 60 passive Attack Power, not 30. I saw someone mention it in an earlier page as only being 30, so I thought I'd clarify that in case your calculations are not up-to-date in that regard.
Wow so it's 60 AP AND the earthstrike clicky effect? Is there a catch? Does it have a longer cooldown than ES?
Then I checked Kalman's Excel about MH-Enchants found here: http://www.radiationnow.net/wow/enchant.xls . For DPS, critrate and hitrate I just used the numbers from the DPS-spreadsheet, for armor mitigation I used 0,8 as in the spreadsheet (although for the relative order of these three enchants armor mitigation should not matter). According to Kalman's Excel the order is
So which Excel is right, and where are the errors?
Assuming you're alliance here. Kalman's enchant spreadsheet doesn't take into account Blessing of Kings, last I checked. Crusader and 15 agi both get a little bit of a boost from BoK, whereas +5 does not, thus the reason the numbers are higher.
No, I don't handle BOK. Chalon probably also handles the damage gain from +crit more accurately than I do, and since that's calculated off of DPS I hope you used Chalon's sheet with no enchants on it to calculate the DPS you stuck in there. :p
I think he's using my assumptions on Crusader uptime, but if he isn't, that would be another potential source of error.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Yeah it just uses your Crusader uptimes...btw did you have estimated uptimes for daggers faster than 1.7s :P. I think when we did that we just put in numbers that were slightly lower uptimes, just guessing. But I guess most people aren't using a dagger faster than 1.7 in the main hand.
Something I had forgotten to check but cant now since I had to remove my spreadsheet viewer to clear up HD room for test folders. Does the spreadsheet include Seal of the Dawn Chalon? (dont remember seeing it in RC5.1)
(a little offtopic)
Also changed my own current gear somewhat recently after getting a Mh sword. Does anyone know if theres an addon/stats logger, which actively tracks +extra hits? I'm presuming the data is all retrievable, and combat stats itself is probably easily modified to the point where it could track the info. Just want some real stats to play with for comparisons etc.
Yeah it just uses your Crusader uptimes...btw did you have estimated uptimes for daggers faster than 1.7s :P. I think when we did that we just put in numbers that were slightly lower uptimes, just guessing. But I guess most people aren't using a dagger faster than 1.7 in the main hand.
Heh. Probably I didn't, to tell the truth. Then again, all my uptimes are assuming a 10% hitrate, and hitrate probably does affect things, so...
Yah. I should redo it, generating an uptime matrix w/r/t hitrate and weaponspeed and provide that.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Insatiable Blade
Unique
One-Hand Sword
70 - 131 Damage, Speed 1.60
(62.8 damage per second)
Equip: Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.
Equip: Improves your chance to hit by 1%.
Equip: +26 Attack Power
Shroud of Dominion
Back
68 Armor
+11 Stamina
Equip: Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.
Equip: +50 Attack Power.
Slayer's Crest
Unique
Trinket
Equip: +64 Attack Power.
Use: Increase Attack Power by 260 for 20 sec.
Cooldown: Unknown
Kiss of the Spider
Unique
Trinket
Equip: Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.
Equip: Improves your chance to hit by 1%.
Use: Increases your attack speed by 20% for 15 sec.
Nerubian Slavemaker
Crossbow
120 - 223 Damage, Speed 3.00
(57.2 damage per second)
Equip: +24 Attack Power.
Equip: Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.
Not that we'll ever see the last one... but, still! There may be a new potential Jesus-build lurking.
Version 1.01 is now out.
-Fixed Slayer's Crest stats
-Added some new Naxxramas drops
-Added Seal of the Dawn
-Added Conscecrated Sharpening Stones
-Kiss of the Spider is not in, pending trying to find out the cooldown
Great resource Valar / Chalon. Thanks so much for taking the time to put it together.
I have a couple questions about the Combat Swords Spreadsheet:
At my gear level (full tier 2, vis+bb) the spreadsheet suggests that putting Fiery Weapon on my mainhand will increase my sustained DPS over Crusader. Is this possible, or is there an error somewhere affecting the Fiery Weapon calculations?
Is there a reason why Maelstrom isn't listed? I'm guessing you just haven't put it on yet, but at the same time, it's possible that Maelstrom's non-scaling nature damage isn't useful in AQ and beyond.
Maelstrom gets resisted a lot versus raid mobs, to the point where parsing suggested it was strictly worse than Blackhand's Breadth. I suspect it's not there because of that.
Great resource Valar / Chalon. Thanks so much for taking the time to put it together.
I have a couple questions about the Combat Swords Spreadsheet:
At my gear level (full tier 2, vis+bb) the spreadsheet suggests that putting Fiery Weapon on my mainhand will increase my sustained DPS over Crusader. Is this possible, or is there an error somewhere affecting the Fiery Weapon calculations?
Is there a reason why Maelstrom isn't listed? I'm guessing you just haven't put it on yet, but at the same time, it's possible that Maelstrom's non-scaling nature damage isn't useful in AQ and beyond.
It doesn't factor in resistance. Since most end-game mobs are fire-resistant...
(But yes, it is possible that Fiery would outdamage Crusader in some circumstances.)
Maelstrom, IIRC, isn't listed because there's no "slot" for trinket proc DPS. In other words, because it would require changing the spreadsheet to accomodate just that one item. And since parsing suggests it to be strictly worse than BHB, I think they basically just decided it wasn't worth adding.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Thought I would register and mention how great this is. Thanks for putting in all the work and continuing to update it. It really helps in those working out gear choices for those of us who are anal about our numbers :p
One thing I noticed was Badge of the Swarmguard is not a trinket option on your spreadsheet. I personally have no idea how to calculate it, but was wondering if it would be possible to do so and make it part of the sheet. Or does this fall under the Maelstrom category?
If not for the spreadsheet has anyone crunched the numbers on it in comparison to other high end trinkets? I'm at a loss on how to do it and as usual the official boards have yielded few results.
Chalon or Valar any good progress on the swords/fists variant of this spreadsheet?
Thanks for any reply.
Originally Posted by chalon
There is now an RC for the SWORDS spreadsheet available on Savefile.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Thought I would register and mention how great this is. Thanks for putting in all the work and continuing to update it. It really helps in those working out gear choices for those of us who are anal about our numbers :p
One thing I noticed was Badge of the Swarmguard is not a trinket option on your spreadsheet. I personally have no idea how to calculate it, but was wondering if it would be possible to do so and make it part of the sheet. Or does this fall under the Maelstrom category?
If not for the spreadsheet has anyone crunched the numbers on it in comparison to other high end trinkets? I'm at a loss on how to do it and as usual the official boards have yielded few results.
I did a *really* rough sustained damage approximation for it and was unimpressed. My results seem to match other people's experience, although macroing it to active use abilities like AR and BF and ES tends to boost the output a bit.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Just a quick question regarding poisons and the way it is calculated. According to the spreadsheet, using the new rank Deadly poison gives a massive dps boost over Instant.
1) What assumptions does the spreadsheet make regarding poisons?
2) If any, are these realistic in most encounters?
3) Should I be using Deadly over Instant? (given 3/8 BF Bonus of course)
1) That you'll get the full effect and are the only rogue applying it
2) Not really - for whatever reason, even when debuffs aren't capped out other classes really, really dislike seeing Deadly Poison on the mob, despite the fact it has none of the negative externalities of some of the other options(the common argument is that SW:P is more damage, which may be true but requires the priests a) targeting the mob and b) blowing a lot of mana on SW:P). It's also suboptimal on short fights where you don't get the full duration(ie trash) and you can't control the application so when debuffs are an issue you have to overwrite it somehow.
3) Probably not, given 2)
1. That you're the only rogue applying and that you'll never "lose" procs. Probably I should work out for Chalon something similar to my crusader proc estimator, and give him a good estimate of how much you actually get out of deadly, but I'm lazy and it'll be hard to produce something formulaic enough to be used.
2. We don't actually have that problem. If we're not debuff-capped, no one complains when I run deadly on a weapon.
3. Eh. I actually run instant/deadly (Viskag/Maladath) with BF 3 piece and we usually have a 4-5 stack up on the mob for most of a fight.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Yeah, I was going to say: It's actually semi tough for me to get (and maintain) a full 5 stack of deadly on mobs for whatever reason. Note: I have neither 3 BF nor the BWL poison totem. Also, considering how expensive deadly is, I primarily run dual instant - except in the cases where I know I can just stand there and wail on the boss.
The version of the sword rogue template seems to have windfury problems. If I set both my current gear and my dream gear to the same sets, and than use WF for both, the current gear WF is actually reporting a higher DPS value. Am I forgetting to change something or has this been fixed in a newer version?
Kingsfall - Crusader - Windfury
Death's Sting - Agility (+15 Agility) - Instant Poison VI
Striker's Mark
Bonescythe Helm - Death's Embrace
Barbed Choker
Deathdealer's Spaulders - Zandalar Signet of Might
Bonescythe Breastplate - Greater Stats (+4 All Stats)
Belt of Never-ending Agony
Bonescythe Leggings - Death's Embrace
Deathdealer's Boots - Minor Speed (No Stat Boost)
Bonescythe Bracers - Superior Strength (+9 Strength)
Aged Core Leather Gloves - Greater Agility (+7 Agility)
Cloak of the Fallen God - Lesser Agility (+3 Agility)
Master Dragonslayer's Ring
Bonescythe Ring
Earthstrike (will be the click trinket with 30AP passive)
Drake Fang Talisman
It's amazing in a way that Striker's Mark and Aged Core Leather Gloves have hung on as long as they have.
When you get a chance Wodin would you mind updating the Prototype Sword Rogue section of your CTProfile? We've been having a lot of good discussions about worthwhile upgrades in my guild since the release of Valar and Chalon's swords spreadsheet and I'd really like to hear your two cents.
Kingsfall - Crusader - Windfury
Death's Sting - Agility (+15 Agility) - Instant Poison VI
Striker's Mark
Bonescythe Helm - Death's Embrace
Barbed Choker
Deathdealer's Spaulders - Zandalar Signet of Might
Bonescythe Breastplate - Greater Stats (+4 All Stats)
Belt of Never-ending Agony
Bonescythe Leggings - Death's Embrace
Deathdealer's Boots - Minor Speed (No Stat Boost)
Bonescythe Bracers - Superior Strength (+9 Strength)
Aged Core Leather Gloves - Greater Agility (+7 Agility)
Cloak of the Fallen God - Lesser Agility (+3 Agility)
Master Dragonslayer's Ring
Bonescythe Ring
Earthstrike (will be the click trinket with 30AP passive)
Drake Fang Talisman
It's amazing in a way that Striker's Mark and Aged Core Leather Gloves have hung on as long as they have.
When you get a chance Wodin would you mind updating the Prototype Sword Rogue section of your CTProfile? We've been having a lot of good discussions about worthwhile upgrades in my guild since the release of Valar and Chalon's swords spreadsheet and I'd really like to hear your two cents.
Nerubian Slavemaker is better than Striker's Mark, it's just unrealistic to consider even getting it until every hunter does.
05/22/06, 6:53 PM
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