As a Dagger Shaman (TM) I'm still slightly puzzled over the new weapon skill system. Last night I got the Circlet from Emeriss which has +14 dagger skill on it, however I'm a bit lost as to what this actually means as far as damage output goes for dual dagger wielding against lets say a lvl60 mob.

Can I reverse this by saying that each point in skill will decrease the chance for miss/dodge/pary/block by 0.04%, hence increasing my chance to hit by 0.16% per point of weapon skill and increase crit chance by 0.04%?

Secondly, I ran into the post below from Eyonix stating a conversion of weapon skill rating to skill points. I seem to recall that at lvl60 that the factor is 2.5 scaling to 3.9 at lvl70.

So my best stab at this would be that 14/2.5=5.6 skill, 5.6 x 0.16 =0.896% to hit and 5.6 x 0.04=0.22% to crit. Can anyone confirm/counter this?

Mobs won't parry or block from behind, and you should be DPSing from behind, so it's really closer to 0.08% +Hit (effective) per point of skill.

Err, I thought Mobs won't parry/block from behind, but they dodge just fine?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I most certainly did not edit my post to replace one five letter form of mitigation with another five letter form of mitigation.

(Stupid brain. Think parry, type dodge.)

Oh, you didn't? Excellent, well carry on then.

(Oh well, we all make silly mistakes, at least there are people around to catch them.)

Have there been any formula for rage generated per damage dealt put out for 2.0? Also how haste affects rage generation? I did a few searches but turned up with nothing.

Thanks

It is, however, interesting to note that mobs will still ignore you when these abilities wear off or are cancelled. The system remembers your hate level but you remain "inactivated" for the purposes of mob aggro selection until you actually use any ability that generates additional aggro.

Case in point: Two warriors fighting for aggro on Anub'Rekhan. 10 seconds before swarm the warrior who *doesn't* have aggro runs the hell away. When swarm begins, a paladin BoPs the MT. Mob goes chasing OT. When BoP wears off, mob will, for some reason, continue to ignore MT (and keep meleeing OT) until the MT uses Battle Shout at which point the mob promptly snaps back to him. (This is actually how we used to do Anub in the old days... :)

It's because of the 10/30% rule. When the mob is stuck on somebody else, you have to perform a threat-generating action that leaves you over the threshold in order to pull it back.

Curious has anyone seen the stat Hit Avoidance before?

[Necklace of Trophies] has 14 hit avoidance rating on it and I've never heard of this stat before. I assume it would add to your to be missed rate.

Edit: picture of the item since none of the item pages supports this new stat it seems.

Are you sure it's like this? I also noticed this behavious after BoPs, Ice Blocks and such but I don't think it has anything to do with the 110%/130% rule.

Imagine a scenario like this:

Main Tank at 100%
Off Tank 80% (some number between <100% but above the raid)

Now if you'd BoP the MT, the mob would turn to the OT because the MT is "taken out of the picture" so to say as long as he is immune. After BoP wears off the mob still won't come back until the MT did some aggro move. The amount of aggro doesn't even matter, it is just to say something "Hey mob, I am still here you know" kind of thing.

I think this behaviour also happens with the 110%/130% rule IIRC (not sure anymore, has been a while). When I was skilling up my daggers on a BL mob a Priest happened to come along and we fooled around with the aggro. I'd have him get aggro and get into melee range, then I'd go Bear and Growl the mob and have the Priest move to range (we have the same aggro each now). Then he'd do some more aggro spells without pulling aggro while I was doing nothing. After that I'd have him come into melee range to show him he'd grab aggro at once just by being in melee range because he was between over 100% but below 130% aggro. But oddly enough, he had to another aggro move so that the mob would notice he was in melee (heck, a normal puny Priest punch was all it takes).

Ok, so, here are two curious screenshots I happen to have lying around. One was taken a few days prior to the "Before the Storm" patch on my shaman. The second was taken just a few days ago on my Blood Elf paladin.

http://home.comcast.net/~vsarp/images/ssblock.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~vsarp/images/socwtf.jpg

Peculiar combat mechanics indeed. The Stormstrike block can be explained if you accept the two-roll theory for special attacks, but the SoC result is a bit more confusing. Anyone want to take a bite?

(My humblest apologies for just posting screenshots without doing any analysis of my own. I assure you that if I were not currently running on almost no sleep, this post would contain more theorycraft than you'd ever want to see.)

Hrm, this reminds of some behavior I noticed yesterday- A friend and I were on a quest that required us to get hit by a Windserpent cast lightning breath many many times. What we did was, I would throw an axe to pull one (~300 dmg), then both of us would stand still doing nothing while it cast on me. When I got low on health, I would feint, leaving both of us with 0 hate, but the Windserpent would still focus its attention on my friend.

Does anyone think the difference in tanking might also be because for druids the prime way to level is feral (and happens to be paired with the tanking tree) while warriors can go into other trees to level?

I've noticed the difference between actual Prot tanks and semi-dual builds with Prot. Even on multi trash pulls. But yes, I've noticed Druids are amazing tanks, especially once they get that Lacerate (I think? The 5 stack sunder-type dot) skill. But hey, nothing beats watching a tank shield wall a boss at 3% when everyone else is dead to kill him :D

SoC will miss under melee special attack rules, and there is the inate magical resist of every mob (not sure if that includes holy resist) and every magical attack has the minimum a 1% chance to miss.

Sorry for asking such a noobish question so late, but I realize that I don't understand one thing about how ratings affect crit/hit. I looked over the thread quickly and couldn't find it addressed, if it is, please accept my apologies.

Pre 2.0 and ratings, people complained that as they levelled, they appeared to lose crit, since the crit% on their melee tooltip declined as they levelled, due to the rising agi:crit% ratio. This was a fallacy though, since that tooltip reflected crit rate against enemies of your current level. Your crit rate against enemies of your previous level remained the same (or, in general, actually increased).

Post 2.0, the crit% indicator drops in value in two ways as you level: it's calculated against a higher level target (as before), and each point of crit rating you have equates to a lower amount of crit% than it did at your previous level.

My question is, in the new system, is your crit% against lower level mobs still what it was when you were their level? Or because your total crit rating is worth less crit% at your new level, your crit% has actually dropped?

My intuition tells me "no, i'll crit level 60 mobs at level 65 as much or more than I used to at 60", but I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere. All I see is the formula for how CritRating:Crit scales for same level targets. Has anyone tested or obtained some other sort of confirmation?

Side note: we used to do anub the exact same way.

My experience has been, threat wipes, even temporary ones (like bop, gouge, frogged, etc) persist after their effect until you do something to "reinstate" your threat level. Battle Shout doesn't actually do much threat at all anymore, it simply reinstates your threat level which was already well over the 10/30% mark.

A better place to see this is to get frogged at Jin'do. Jin'do runs off and beats on whoever (usually clothie nukers). If you don't battleshout or bloodrage when you come out of frog, Jin'do will stay beating on whoever. If you do, Jin'do will drop what he's doing and cross the room to come kill you. It's like when you come out of frog, you remain invisible until you do something. Similarly, Anub would chase the 2nd tank even after the MT's bop faded, until the MT battle shouted or bloodraged.

We stopped using the bop method because I could have sworn Blizzard was quietly mucking around with battle shout and bloodrage aggro every minor patch. Besides, just having the MT kite is actually simpler and can withstand not having 4 Paladins in the raid for whatever reason. BoP became too unwieldy.

Edit: Oh ... about five people above me said the same thing, sigh. My apologies. I win at reading threads.

the wording makes it sound like it effectively lowers your enemy's hit rate against you, or to put another way increases their miss rate against you.

The reason for this is simple from a programming standpoint. There's no looping check performed dozens of times each second to see if the mob's target is the same unit as the highest unit on the aggro list, calculating range modifiers every iteration. Instead, each time you perform an action that generates threat, the mob checks whether your threat*rangemod is greater than that of the current target. No threat-generating action, no threat. I am kind of curious whether non-threat-generating actions like Holy Nova actually skip the check, or go through the check after adding 0 threat. I doubt that an "aggro list" is kept in memory at all; there's a lot of overhead in constantly resorting.

Anyway, here's a quote from Tseric quoting the 2.07 notes:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...geNo=1&sid=1#0

It was probably the case that resilience previously reduced the range of crit on the attack roll. This change, however, implies one of two things:
1) a second roll - crits are calculated normally, and then a roll is done to see if resilience negates it
2) a new outcome has been added to the possible outcomes of a swing: R, a crit negated by Resilience.
Given the existence of the single-roll system, I think it's safe to conclude that Blizzard would implement this change via method 2. If we do have a new outcome for attack rolls, it's time for some testing to figure out where it ranks, whether it's something that will be pushed off or can be used to push off undesirable outcomes.

Only normal white melee attacks are under the single roll system (at least that is our best guess so far), special attacks (yellow damage) are already on a 2 roll. Therefore I am unsure how they would implement this, although I believe that dual winding dagger rogues with perma slice and dice would still generate a significant amount of server load if white attacks were on a 2 roll system.

Anyway, my question is, what happens if you ... resi.. resiliate (what is the verb for this, is there any??) a crit. To what type of attack is it being converted damage wise? A normal hit?
So if you had 25% crit chance, and the target had 1% resilience (39.42 rating on level 70) you would then hit 76% of the time and crit only 24% (assuming you are fighting a player and attack from the back).

Mages have a -hit talent in Frost, other classes may have similar talents. I'd assume it's something similar.

It's basically +Dodge except it is more useful against Overpower. Pretty cool if it came on items with Sta, just like the necklaces from Harbinger of Doom that have Resilence and no Stamina, I chalk it up to yet more bad itemization on Blizzard's part.

Does this work differently for fear? Last night in Sethekk Halls I was off-tanking the birdmen in bear form and every time I got feared the mob would run off and wail on someone else, but as soon as the fear wore off it came running back to me.