Pre-2.0, your crit rate against enemies of the previous level might actually have decreased slightly, as the Agi/Crit ratio increases every time you level. So, the Agi term in your crit chance against all mobs would be slightly lower until you gained enough Agi to make up for the difference.

Post-2.0, the concept is the same, but the crit contribution from gear, as well as from Agility, is subject to this effect. So yes, your real crit chance against previous-level mobs does decrease when you gain a level, until you gain a bit more Agi and crit rating to make up for the "expected" gain. Also note, though, that you'll soon have 5 more skill ranks in your weapon, which helps out.

Why these scaling calculations are based on attacker level instead of target level, I really don't understand.

You are wrong. This worked the same before for agility scaling. Nothing has changed. When you were level 30 and had 10% crit against a level 30 opponent, after you leveled to 31 (and gained 5 weapon skill), your crit rate against that mob did not go below 10% (if anything it became higher) wearing the exact same gear.

The character sheet specifically states that its statistics are for equal level mobs. It always has. Try one shotting some mobs in the level 1-5 zones. I know on my character I have like 75%+ crit rate on those mobs. I'm suprised when I don't crit.

http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/en/166546791.htm

I don't know if anyone else had seen this already, but this is news to me. Actual numbers on the 2.0 weapon skill mechanic vs. a +3 mob. It looks like +weapon skill is still mostly a tank stat with the -2.4% parry, although it's nice to see it's doing more than 0.04 per point vs. +3 mobs like Kalgan(?) said it would.

What exactly are you saying here? I don't see how any of it goes against what I'm saying.

When you gain a level, before you pick up 5 more weapon skill, your real crit chance against a constant-level target decreases. It usually decreases by less than .2, so you make up the difference when you get your skill ranks.

Someone did a bit of math in that thread and showed that for each Weapon Skill Rating point, you get more crit for for a +3 mob than for each Crit Rating. Which is pretty interesting.

Following this up on Wowwiki (which I know isn't the best source), I have several questions I hope someone can answer. I had a look through a few pages of this thread, and the archives and search is down, so I hope I'm not being redundant.

1. How much Defense do boss mobs have? I know they're treated as +3 mobs, but I seem to remember reading (on these boards) that they have the Defense of a even level mob.

2. Wowwiki mentions that there exists a hard cap for +hit. It states for dual wielders, this miss minimal is 19%, making more than 5% +hit useless. This doesn't SEEM right for me as I definitely feel like I do more damage after all the new +hit I aquired, but I remembered my friend telling me his Recap picked up his miss rate as 19%, despite having 15% to hit. At the time, I attributed this to Parry, Dodge and Block being counted as Misses, but now I'm not so sure.

3. Wowwiki also mentions that attacking from the back doesn't negate Parry and Block. Instead, mobs simply take those Parries and Blocks and turns them into misses. This doesn't ring true for me, because while grinding, I often see my Stormstrikes and Windfuries parried, or blocked, when I am attacking from behnd I never see a yellow "miss".

4. Can weapons (and WF) proc on glancing blows?

If someone has any info to share about this before I run hours of tests myself, that would be great.

While we can't know exactly anymore since they removed the ability to see mobs specific defense and level it is almost universally believed to be +3. The evidence to support this is the spell resist rates, the glancing blow rates and the crushing blow rates. This means a lvl 73 will have 15 more defense than a lvl 70. This is supported by stuff like when a tank is MCed and people glance while hitting him as well as the way glancing blows worked pre 2.0.x

Wowwiki is HOPELESSLY out of date. The hard cap for dual weild miss rate was removed many patches ago. I believe the parry, block, dodge bug was removed a long time ago. The fact that mobs display dodges from behind supports this. Also be careful with stats many recording programs have their quirks in how they record things, especially the earlier versions

This is my experience as well, the wiki is out of date. Be aware that the servers often fudge stuff based on lag and positioning so it is possible to get a dodged backstab in pvp for example.

It did decrease since your formula for crit via Agi/Int changed.

That's my point. The forumla for agi/crit vs. same level mobs changed, not the forumla for crit vs. previous level mobs. A 60 warrior vs. a 60 mob has 20 agi per crit. A 70 warrior vs. a 60 mob does not have 33 agi per crit, he still has 20 agi per crit.

That's pretty much the thing I'd like to know if anyone confirmed via testing, since all I've seen either way is people claiming what makes sense to them. The corresponding claim about whether a level 70 needs 22 crit rating or 14 crit rating for 1% crit against a level 60 is also up for proof.

Right now, Arawethon seems to be saying that my ~75-95% crit rate against level 1 rats is due solely to my having 345 more weapon skill than they have defense, because at equal skill levels, I would need 40 agi or 22 crit rating for each percentage of crit against a level 1.

If no one has actually tested these claims, I suppose I could grab a weapon I never skilled up (I think I'm still at 1/350 2H Axes) and go kill some rats.

The level in the formula is the level of your enemy, not your own level.

Not that I'm doubting you, but how do you know this?

My tooltips sure don't?

And wouldn't this just be a reflection of the crit difference based on weapon skill & defense skill difference?

And armor of course is one known factor that has been shown to be determined via mob level not player level.

The fact that the UI figure is relative to mobs your level isn't in question. It's whether the calculation for lower level mobs is still being done at the lower level ratios or the current ratio. Hence I asked if anyone knows for sure, instead of just assuming one way or the other.

As has been mentioned (twice) the higher crit rate against lower level enemies could just be the difference in weapon and defense values.

The armor tooltip does for sure. It is also easily testable by taking off armor and seeing when damage starts to increase.

For weapon skill... even if you hit a rat which had 0 defense (not sure if it's higher than 0) a skill of 350 would only add 14% to crit, which isn't enough to cover the extreme raise in crit % on critters.

Well so far you have only presented anecdotal evidence nothing that firmly states that for sure. I mean my druid should have 100% crit rate fully buffed on lvl 1 mobs but I sure don't recall anything of the sort.

In fact I've been working on skinning on my mage and so far my crit rate is nowhere what it should be for the mobs I've been AOE killng (my crit chance is at 11.11% and I'm critting 16% of the time but that doesn't take into account misses which would reduce it by about 1% then there is the extra crits from shatter and using ice armor with frostbite proccing).

Edit: In a few moments I will reset my data and run around a lowbie area just Arcane Explosion bunch of lvl 5 and under mobs and will check the crit rate.

I told you how to easily test it with armor, testing crit rate is much harder as it requires a huge sample. I can tell you that if I go kill rats in the tram though, my crit rate is something like 75%.

Mabe spells are different than melee for this type of thing. Because there is no way my crit chance is anywhere near my tooltip on low level mobs with a melee weapon.

Strange things happen when there are gross skill imbalances in melee combat.

Remember how having less than 300 defense would suddenly cause the Crushing chance against you to skyrocket (find a Druid who's eaten Unbalancing Strike)? Glancing Blows used to be behave in a very nonlinear way (you could recover 30% damage on Glances with +10 skill--but if you were using a weapon in which you were deficient by 23 skill ranks, I'm pretty sure you didn't do 0 damage). All of the scaling functions (Armor mitigation, Agi/crit, Int/crit) are piecewise.

It's true--I don't really know for sure. I think I assumed it based on the wording of blue posts a while back. It's how most people think it works, at any rate. There would be odd effects if it were the other way (even though I think "the other way" would be a better system). You'd need more rating than advertised against level 73 bosses, for one. And how in the world would "haste rating" work?

If you want to test, go beat up 70's for a while, and then 60's for a while. Let's say you're looking for roughly a 5% difference in crit chance due to rating and Agility (this is conservative, you could get more by stacking crit to test).

The statistical error of the measurement is roughly equal to the square root of the number of crits. A few hundred swings should be enough to resolve out 5%.

Looks like I could be wrong.

After killing 150 level 1 young wolves in Elwynn forest, my experimental crit rate was 21.4%.

Naked 70 gnome warrior.
Berserker stance (+3% crit).
Cruelty (5% crit).
Average 335 unarmed skill ((335 -5) * 0.04 = 13.2% crit from weapon skill).
My base agility was 99.

Put all my gear on other than weapons (to mitigate the weapon skill difference).

150 more level 1 wolves, 41.4% experimental crit rate.
Same stats as before except:
10.55% crit from crit rating.
183 agi.
Average unarmed skill 337.

For the most part, it looks like there is some agi/crit rating scaling going on, but there's still some 10% crit unaccounted for when I put my gear on.

So basically, it looks like I'm wrong. Still not sure how it works though. 99 base agi put me at almost zero +crit, and it doesn't seem like a difference of +84 agi on it's own would suddenly put me at nearly +10% crit.

I chose level 1 mobs rather than critters because I feel like there's some special case for critters that makes you crit more. :P

i got some questions about crit chance and resilience.

As i see it, it could work two ways and i can't find any info about it.

1.

A mage got 20% crit chance. A shaman got 5% less crit from resilience .

[top] the mage crits 15% of his attacks against the shaman.

2.

A mage got 20% crit chance. A shaman got 5% less crit from resilience .
mr Mage throws 10,000 bolts. 2,000 should crit. of these 2000 bolts 5% is removed

100 bolts removes because of the resilience.

anyone 100% sure which one it is?

First one; according to the blue post about resilience on us warrior forums. Tseric was substracting the crit reduction from overall crit the opposing player may have.

But, isnt this the most common fact about wow mechahic anyway?