• Arawethion

Oh really? I'd always heard the (13 + Spi/4) figure, but had only confirmed it for Mages. Anyone know the details on those other classes?

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Maledict

I know this is going to sound strange, and I apologise for the lack of hard maths, because I can't find the parses anywhere on my PC. But, on level 63 monsters, has anyone noticed that Curse of Elements seems to drop Frostbolts resists rate to about 4/5%, rather than the 17% it should be?

I dunno if I'm going mad, but the one MC run where we did parse it, once CoE hit a mob the resist rates fell by a lot. Never worked out if this was because frostbolt was binary, because CoE had some "other effect" on level resists, or if it were just one of those runs where you can throw your parse out of the window because the RNG has decided, like a fairy from on high, to bless you with crits and big hits...

Sorry for the lack of accuracy in my post, I just want to know if anyone else has experianced this at all.

 

• frmorrison

According to http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Mana_Regen,

Druid, Hunter, Warlock Spirit/5 + 15
Mage Spirit/4 + 12.5
Paladin Spirit/4 + 8
Priest Spirit/4 + 12.5
Shaman Spirit/5 + 17

At least Shaman don't have the worst regen :).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

• Arawethion

Ok. This seems to jive with what I got very briefly by asking a few people to tell me their Spirit ticks.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Deathwing

What is the AS in that equation? Is the 60%? I'm confused there too.

Also, how come you aren't using the agro thresholds as part of agro comparisons? If I remember correctly, ranged has a 1.3x threshold, while melee has a 1.1x. Wouldn't that give ranged another advantage? 1.3^-1 in this case.

EDIT: Durrr...arcane subtelty. Why are you applying it as a generic threat modifier? Only works for arcane damage spells, no?

Also, I believe MD imp aura is one of those that stacks additively.

 

• Arawethion

Further question I hadn't really thought about before--how does Fade work in the context of the 30% rule?

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Elerion

It works weird. Even minutes into a pull I can pull aggro and fade it right back off to the tank. Happens on green wyrmguard pulls often. Logically I would have had to have 30% more threat than the tank to pull aggro, and would have to drop to 91% of his threat to send it back to him, assuming he stays in melee range. After 2 minutes, that difference should be a lot more than 850 threat or whatever Fade is.

 

◊ Shalas

Also, fade never seems to dump aggro on anyone but the tank, even if someone else is ahead of the tank in aggro (as evidenced by them pulling aggro very quickly afterwards).

My random theory is that it does something strange like remove you from the aggro list, calculate aggro, then readd you at the lower level. It definatly seems to do less if it doesn't make you lose aggro immediatly.

 

• frmorrison

Just noticed that on weapon skill, you didn't write that if you have 310 skill, glancing blows do full damage.

Also a note somewhere saying that if you have 440 defense you cannnot be critted may be useful.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

◊ Praetorian

Isn't it more accurate to say that you'll still get glancing blows, but they'll do full damage?

 

◊ Kalman

Yes.

Important distinction too, due to the corresponding existence of a crit cap (max crit = 100 - miss - dodge - parry - block - glance, ~30% + +hit from the back, 20% + +hit in the front).

 

• frmorrison

Someone just told me that CoC and FN have no special modifiers for their spell coefficient (it was posted that they do .8 and .2 respectively).

Also since you listed some spell exceptions, maybe list others?

Pyroblast has a special coefficient, which had its coefficient adjusted outside of the normal rules.
Paladins have special coefficients for their Seals/Judgements.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

• Wodin

Frostbolt is close to its default coefficient: .81 instead of .86. I can't remember what CoC gets off the top of my head. :/

 

• Arawethion

Haven't checked recently, but I think it was 3/7 * 1/3 * .8 (instant cast, AoE, strong snare).

Frost Nova has a special modifer--it gets almost nothing. Otherwise my R1 Frost Nova would be hitting for well over 100.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Kalince

At least this part of what you said is not correct in my experiences (for a knockback mob it usually is but that is because the next person was lowe then the tank before the knockback). Usually if you have something that priests pulled aggro on it will make the fade rounds where each priest fades it onto the next one.

 

Soul

You get Rank 1 Frost Nova at, like, level 6-8, so it won't get the full multiplier.

 

• Arawethion

Does level affect spell multiplier? It certainly doesn't seem to for R5 Frostbolt.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

◊ Praetorian

There's a cutoff. (Is it 20? 30?) Any skill that you learned below that level cutoff receives a drastically reduced +dam/heal contribution.

 

• frmorrison

Rank 5 FB is learned past level 20. Any spell learned before 20 gets much less +damage/healing added to it.

Edit: Was too slow, but it is level 20 for the cut-off.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

• Arawethion

Ah, okay. Actually, I guess I vaguely knew that, otherwise I'd be using R1 Frostbolt instead of R5 when out of mana (Half the +dmg bonus in 2/5 the time).

I'll remember to check high-rank FN when I get on. And that reminds me, what's the current consensus on the difference in efficacy between R1 and R4 Frost Nova?

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Elethiomel

One thing I've seen in several combat-mechanics threads, including this one, is the assertion that crits can't be blocked, dodged or parried.
And up until now I've taken that more or less as a given, especially since I haven't ever seen it happen myself and so many people who seem fairly knowledgeable says that's how it works.

Just today, though, I saw the following message in my combat-log:
(Sorry about the "some number" part there, but I'm working from memory has I haven't managed to locate the screenshot of it yet).

What's going on here?

Is there some oddity happening, or have people been mistaken about this mechanic? Or has something changes recently?


EDIT: Aaand, I'm a bit of a muppet and pressed the wrong button when taking the screenshot and by the time I realized it had scrolled past out of my chat-window, so unfortunately I have no actual proof of this. I am, however, 100% sure I didn't misread it, as I was very surprised to see it and triple-checked before trying to screenshot it.

Trust the Computer. The Computer is Your Friend.

 

Twid

That is going from a Player -> Mob, so it may work differently going from Mob -> Player. Best way to determine this is to unequip all your defense gear and get something to hit you while you're blocking.

As i recall, someone did this (I don't know what their defense was while testing this though) during the bugged shield block period on one of the mobs in the blasted lands and over 1000 hits blocked none were crits.

**Looking for the link to the post in these forums about it **

Edit - Ok so it was deadwind pass and 2000 hits.

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=6435

 

• Arawethion

Yeah, sorry. I have to clean that up a bit about the differences between mob vs. player and player vs. mob.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Thorb

Nice post, trying to built some kind of calculator atm using those formulas and it seem to me that the Glancing Blow formula of
G: (.7 + Max(Skill-300,10)*.03)*DH

Should be using a min instead of a max? Using max seem to mean they always do full damage.

Thorb
www.starsonata.com

 

• Arawethion

Right, Min.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.