My guild is trying to take down Huhuran without the use of petrification pots, but we're having a lot of trouble keeping the MT / front 15 up. It may be that our healers are just performing badly, or that our people are lacking in NR, or that our dps is too low, but either the MT or someone in the front 15 drops by 20% every time and things go downhill from there.
Our tank only takes about 500 damage from the volleys, but in between them he gets hit 3 or 4 times for about 1500 which makes it hard to keep him up. Right now we've had each healer covering a person in the front 15 and the MT, but I think the way to go is to have several healers assigned to no one but the MT, and then have other healers who are covering the other 14 people. I'm curious, how do other guilds divide their healing? I've heard about using Prayer of Healing, but we never really considered it due to mana costs.
I've heard about using Prayer of Healing, but we never really considered it due to mana costs.
I don't have too much experience as a healer, but after the 30% mark I don't think the fight should last long enough for mana to become an issue assuming BWL-geared priests
I play a mage and my knowledge is limited as well, but from Thottbot... PoH is about 1000 mana and has a 3 second cast. That's going through 8k mana in a period of 24 seconds, and I think phase 2 lasts anywhere from 30-45 seconds at least. If they're spamming it they'll probably run out, but I guess we'll have to test.
EDIT: I give up. It always makes me double post and if I edit the second post it edits the first one, too. :'-(
What we do is make groups 1-4 the NR bitches, 4 bitches per group plus one PoH-spam priest. We then assign one druid to keep HoTs up on each of the four groups. Everyone else heals the MT. Mages blink in and ice block once their timers are done and we're in execute range. That's about it, really. How much NR do your inner 15 have? Are you Alliance or Horde? Keeping the MT up is very important, obviously -- we usually try to have a warrior who can use Lifegiving, then when that wears off Last Stand, then Shield Wall for the last part, or something along those lines, to give as much of a cushion as possible. MT popping a greater stoneshield pot for at 30% wouldn't hurt either.
If you have sufficient healing, you don't even need POH. You can just assign healers to 2-3 people and do it that way, provided your NR on the 15 doesn't suck. Personally, I don't like the ice block method as I prefer the mages helping burn her down. Just load up on your NR gear and give people NR potions to pop if their HP dip low so the healer has time to catch up.
Yeah, don't worry about the double-posting. Keep your posts there (also, attn: mods reading this -- don't try to delete his double-posts... it'll nuke both copies) for the forums guys to check out and troubleshoot. It looks like a display error of sorts. If you look at the index, it says there are only 3 replies to this thread now, so it isn't counting your double-posts for those purposes. We'll get it fixed.
My guild is alliance. For our front 15 we have about 5 paladins, 5 warriors, and 5 rogues. Paladins can shield, which is helpful, and that trick with the iceblocks seems like it will work well.
Our nature resistance is pretty low I guess: most ppl in the front have 170-180 unbuffed, which puts them at around 240 when they get Aspect of the Wild. I don't suppose this would be too bad if these were all epic NR drops, but most of it was farmed from Maraudon because we have a tough time beating other guilds to dragons.
We use single-target heals only, no PoH. Also, we aim for 18 targets, rather than 15. That usually takes care of the Poison soaking with exactly 9 healers. The rest cover the current tank. A bit of tinkering with assignments should get you a setup that works.
Some of the details depend on whether you're Alliance or Horde (am I right in thinking that Horde don't have to do tank transitions, due to some kind of Totem?).
We're alliance, but our tank never has that much of a problem with transitioning. We have to do it once or twice before the 30% mark because the stackable debuff fails to get resisted on occasion and becomes unmanagable, but so far we haven't survived long enough below that point to necessitate a switch.
EDIT: I just relogged, came back, and the double posts were gone. So either a mod fixed it (thanks!) or the relog did.
240 buffed is plenty. That's a good number. Warriors don't need amazing gear to spam execute, and your ranged classes who are wearing no NR at all can burn her down quickly enough once you get to that point.
Basically, try to combat log your attempt (/combatlog) and find out why the people who died first died. Did they not get any heals for a long period of time? If so, was it a coordination error? Is one of your healers mentally defective? Did that healer run OOM? Pinpoint what's causing your first deaths and address that directly. The rest will flow from there. Once your 15-man wall comes down, things get ugly very quickly, as bolts now start hitting non-NR-wearing ranged folks who aren't necessarily being directly healed, and so forth. The longer you go until your first death, the better your chances of burning her down. With practice and good DPS, you'll kill her without losing anyone at all. But early on, aim for making it below 20% with 40 standing, and go from there.
How long does it take you guys to burn her down? I'm still somewhat worried about the mana cost of PoH, but we'll give this approach (or something like it) a shot.
We're alliance, but our tank never has that much of a problem with transitioning. We have to do it once or twice before the 30% mark because the stackable debuff fails to get resisted on occasion and becomes unmanagable, but so far we haven't survived long enough below that point to necessitate a switch.
We found it was very important to know precisely tank was going to have him, going into 30%. So we don't try any tank transitions under 35 or so (we do them very frequently above there; every few seconds). Our best-geared tank wears somewhat lower NR in lieu of better tanking gear, and he dumps a full Rage bar into her to try to get her back, right before 30.
The first main problem is to make sure the healing assignments work. It can be a bit tight, since Paladins aren't exactly great at it. In general, you want to keep as many Priests as possible on the MT. Druids, with their longer cast times, are better assigned to Warriors. It can work--on our last kill, we had no deaths before 15%. Also, as soon as at least 3 soakers are dead (bringing us down to 15), all the Paladins dive in and Shield to help relieve the strain (and sometimes some Ice Blocks as well).
Otherwise, the only thing that causes serious trouble is the (typically 1) tank transition that you have to do under 30%. It can be a mess. Have your tanks coordinate with each other beforehand how they're going to use their Shield Walls. It's a bit of a crutch, but helps a lot early on. While you're still learning the fight, even if your MT lasts until 8%, she can quickly bounce to three un-Shield-Walled targets as soon as he dies, and kill them all before anyone reacts, and then there's no way you're going to make it.
Another thing to add, for this fight as well as basically any others that have percentage triggered events, is that you want to pace the fight and go into that trigger with almost everything going exactly the way you want it.
MT has a high stack at 35%? Stop DPS until you transition it to another tank or can otherwise force the stack to reset. Mages needs 15 seconds on their timers? Huhu doesn't hit that hard, just wait the extra time.
We use something similar to what Prae described. We use 4 groups with priests for PoH spam after the 30% mark. Druids are assigned MT duty. Paladins pick up the rest. We don't use iceblock, however, since we use them to help on the burndown. When 30% hits, I just start spamming PoH and I usually run OOM just as Huhu is dieing. If the priests pace themselves for the first 70% and make sure they are at/near full mana at 30%, spamming PoH is not a problem and will probably save alot of the first 15.
Replying to this here since it really doesn't belong on the Shaman talent thread.
Originally Posted by dfinberg
Given that alliace tank switches are normally pretty straightforward on demand (blessing of protection) I can't see what the heck you are talking about.
BoP doesn't accomplish a tank transition unless you correctly guess the 10-second window during which the transition is going to happen anyway. In that case, however, the BoP hasn't really done anything.
It's a minor help, because it helps the next target get a bit extra Rage, but that's about it. The tank transitions are still a qualitative added complicating factor for us, especially because trying to pull one off under 30% can be a mess.
Alot of the % needed to get her from 30 to 0 can be found with Curse of Doom. Time it to around the mark she hits 30%, and if you bring enough locks you will have her in execute range in a matter og seconds.
3 groups with poh for a total of 12 people
2 tanks that get assigned healers
1 extra person that gets 1xassigned healer
by putting the responsibility of 12 people on 3 priests there should be so much healing to go around that unless your mt goes in with 10+ debuffs you can feel free to kick them in the head if they can't keep him up. the poh priests make sure they are at full at 30% and their group at 100% and got one druid each watching out for low mana and innervating when needed, it's doable without the druid (grr feral druids, grrr) but might get unstable for the last few %.
it's a dangerous strategy in the way that it relies so heavily on those 3 priests and people can get unlucky with the resists, they allways manage fine with pots and the ocasional iceblock if things go wrong but if you are having problems with those aoe groups just put 1-3 druids on hot'ing anyone that's getting low. spamming chainheal on the nr1 guy in emergency monitor would probably work allright aswell. it might sound a bit too dangerous but we've been doing it like this without wiping due to healing for months. oh and the poh priests are specced for poh, I think it's the only real requirement we have on priest speccs now days (even if we mock inferior builds).
Plimmer: that's a nice idea but then you can never wait out debuffs if the transistions goes wrong, seems dangerous!
Sorry for the bump, but how many of you guys can kill her cleanly?
We can pretty consistently get her to 3-4% with our strat, however, speaking as a sponge, it's pretty hard to keep me up at that point in all my Maraudon gear. One or two unlucky bolts that don't get resisted and it's GG for me.
We one shot her every time with minimal deaths using a combination of assigned healing and prayer of healing. Priests can spam PoH, put druids on the tanks, and have paladins assigned to spot heal. If you can get her to 3-4%, your strat is pretty solid. It sounds like you just need more practice, and maybe some consumables.
I've heard the PoH suggestion from a number of sources, however I've been told by our healers that it wont work for us.
Typical consumables used in a 3-4% attempt are 2x titans flasks for the rotating tanks and 1x Greater Nature pot for each sponge from 30% on down. When sponges start dying we have our dorf pallies zerg in and bubble > stoneform to buy some time. After that it's mages w/ IB, but that kills our DPS.
Strangely enough, we never seem to kill her with the same number of people alive or the same number of attempts. Our strat never changes, tho. From 30% down, we have 4 priests in 4 groups PoH'ing, a druid and a couple palli's on the MT, and all the other healers spot healing. We've one-shotted her with 4 deaths, and we've wiped 4 times straight, finally killing her with 3 alive. I have no idea why that is either.
It is interesting to see the different methodologies.
Our system is perhaps overly complicated but it has served us well.
4 groups with a shaman each in full NR in poison bitch mode.
At enrage Shaman drops dps totems and does what they can (not too much) to keep group alive.
On the outside 1 generic pure healing group that focuses on whoever is tanking when the enrage happens. Other non-poison healers (usually around 6 total) preassigned to heal a specific non-tank bitch group.
If you are horde ZHC + chainheal at enrage can be suprisingly effective for any non-poison shaman healing in their real gear.
05/10/06, 2:24 PM
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