probiscus

What is the prevailing attitude regarding life giving gem from 30% on down?

On previous attempts our tanks have been mix and matching Wrath / NR gear to give an optimal mix of life/defense/stats and NR. However, the trinket slot is less valued, next to say, a wrath helm.

 

probiscus

No, but I'm the new guy so I don't really want to press it.

It's my understanding that the PoH spammers would need to have it talented and get the rank 5 book. I've only been in the guild for a couple weeks, so I'm not sure who's spec'd how, though we do run AQ20 quite often with our A-team healers.

 

Sunder

I have the rank 5 book, but I am not spec'd for group heal (as you can see in my profile), and I do just fine. I usually run OOM just as Huhu is getting to 2% or less. At that point it's usually a sure thing anyway. If I have Brilliant Mana Oil or a Mageblood potion, I'm usually fine on mana. I won't say tell your healers Learn2Play, but you know where this is going. :)

 

probiscus

Well, I referred them to this post, so I probably just got in trouble. >_<

I think the healers are doing a great job given the stress they're under.

I'm thinking I need to libram my NR head / pants as I'm running around w/ approx. 4600 buffed. I feel like a mage.

Gear: http://ctprofiles.net/661336

I don't actually have the Pugio yet, but I will when the instance resets.

 

Digo

If your healers claim they can't do it, but hundreds of other guilds can, and you got in trouble for linking to a thread on the end-game forums with evidence to the contrary, you may want to start looking for a new guild.

 

Elendril

hi angry healers from avente on kilrogg!

one important thing to keep in mind is that your resist wall (and anyone, for that matter) shoudn't just burn nature protection pots as soon as you hit 30%. if your priests are spamming PoH (which they should be), you're going to be getting heals anyway, so it's not like you're conserving anyone's mana - all you're doing is preventing damage that would be healed anyway. generally i pay very close attention to my health and my priest's mana, and if either is looking especially precarious, i pop a pot and keep pewpewpewing away.

 

◊ Praetorian

Hmm. Well, looking at your gear, is that general quality indicative of what most of the people in your raid are wearing? If the general composition is a mix of ZG blues and some epics, I can see why you may be having trouble running OOM before you can burn her down.

Huhuran is very much meant to be the brick wall for guilds that aren't t2-geared. The last 30% is pretty gear-intensive, both in terms of DPS shortening it and regen and +healing allowing you to keep your raid up for longer. It may not necessarily be an issue of l2p -- if you have half blues, you could be executing just as well as all of us saying how easy the fight is, yet falling short every time.

 

Wibble

What might be the issue is that they're not conserving their mana, for whatever reason, up to 30%. If you go into Huhu's Berserk and you have 40% mana, then POH wouldn't be that viable in any case. I rotate really efficient heals with max flash depending on burst damage, and try to go into 30% as close to max mana as possible. I also keep inner focus up for a free POH.

Once she hits Berserk, speed is of the essence anyway. Yes, spamming Prayer of Healing eats tons of mana--the idea is that she's dead before that becomes an issue. DPS really needs to floor it.

 

Sunder

Since he is the "new guy", I'm going to bet that is not the case. But you could very well be correct.

 

Angerz

Since your alliance and have pallys I think you are wasting them having them be in the 15 imo.

Hunters can easily max out NR and give your fifteen the Aura anyway, so we use them as NR eaters.

We usually have enough healing to assign each healer to 2 people and have them keep them up and have a pally assigned to each tank spamming them/waking them up from sleep.

We have only killed her 3 times thus far but it went from wiping a lot, the next week we wiped once, and this week we one shotted. The key was making sure the MT who got aggro at 30% was fairly clean and lived to about 10%.

And I mentioned you wasting your pallies earlier. What we do is have them heal from the outside, then at 25% or so shield and run dead center and take poison bolts. Thats as many pallys as you have less people taking NR bolts. We may lose one person before pallys shield, but we have never lost anyone while they are inside the 15.

I have heard of PoH healing, but we never tried it. It just seems easier to have 1 healer pop heals on one to two people.

 

• Arawethion

Our raid isn't the best geared (our kills are always very close as well). But if you're having trouble pumping out the sheer healing volume, you might want to try an exclusively single-target healing strategy that I (and a few other people) have mentioned. A moderately-geared healer should be able to hold 2 people, espeically if whomever's doing assignments takes the trouble to put the best healers on the lowest-NR targets. In fact, the biggest problem with this strategy can be healers who don't trust each other and look at other targets besides their own.

The difficulty here is that you have a lower amount of healing left over on tanks. Basically, have some tank healers with quick reflexes, and tanks who will have impeccable Shield Wall timing. The hardest part of the fight will be transition that you have to pull off at ~10-12% (if you're Alliance).

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

◊ Praetorian

I don't understand this talk of transitions. Why would you have to do a tank transition at 10%? As Horde I certainly don't have Grounding down from 32% or so onward. The MT and the melee in his group need NR totem more.

(Of course, our dirty little secret: We've never done tank transitions on Huhuran, or even seriously tried. We didn't know Grounding worked for Horde until after we'd been killing her for two months. We just had two tanks going all-out building aggro. We soulstoned one and let him die at 40%, she switched to the other one, and then we killed her. :o )

 

Hamoshin

How much healing do you guys put on the MT? (EDIT: Below 30%, that is.)

I used to have a huge image here, but then it got removed and now I\'ve developed chronic depression and suicidal tendencies. /wrists
http://ctprofiles.net/7275

 

◊ Praetorian

Well, as Horde, our typical setup for a Huhuran kill is likely something like 4 druids, 5 priests, 6 shamans.

Groups 1-4 will each be priest/shaman/melee/melee/melee. The four shamans and all the melee wear max NR. Priests stand behind, not in NR, and PoH.

The four shamans spam LHW the MT while eating bolts in the middle.

Each druid is assigned one of the four groups to cycle rejuv on and regrowth individuals who dip low.

That leaves 2 shamans and 1 priest. The shamans spam chain heal on the MT, hopping to other melee DPS from there. The priest just heals the MT.

 

probiscus

Well, re: rogue gear, I'm basically the turd of the group. We have 2 full T2 CTS rogues, 4 BF/NS mix rogues.... and me. However, when we all put our NR gear on, the only differentiating factors are our weapons and chests - as we're forced to wear all that NR to hit the 251 buffed figure we're required. Regarding priests: the running joke in the guild is that trans robes drop every nef kill... so I'd say the majority are (close to) full T2.

Interesting comment about the hunters though. Given how much damage ranged DPS does - we tried to maximize their contribution by letting them wear probably 95% full bore DPS gear. And yes, our paladins are wearing NR - at least my healer was. I'll have to remember to ask him how much +heal / int / regen he's sacrificing by doing that.

 

◊ Praetorian

Ah, ok, so you've definitely got the DPS then. The main thing to do after a wipe is to figure out where it all went wrong. Who died first? Second? Those are the deaths you need to stop. Once the NR wall gives way and other healers start eating bolts, you're screwed. It's a snowball effect (though ice blocked mages and DS paladins can stem the tide for a while).

As for the guys who died first, who was supposed to be healing them? What happened? Did the healers run OOM? Were they spread too thin and couldn't keep up? Did they get silenced? Figure out the cause of the individual deaths and tweak your strat accordingly.

 

• Arawethion

I'll talk to healers about this then, but our MT never lasts from 30-0 . . .

Also, above 30, we just let her bounce around all over the place. Debuff never gets above 4 or so. Mostly because, when we were first learning the fight, maximizing healer mana at 30 seemed like a high priority.

What do you have the planned 30-0 tank wearing?

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

probiscus

I saved my /combatlog from last night. Tonight is BWL so I'll go back and parse that thing to see who was getting hit with what. I'm pretty sure I was consistently the first or second sponge to drop.

What's funny is my upgrade from Gutgore Ripper to the Pugio might just bridge the 3% gap - I'm going to get 90 extra life and quite a bit of extra DPS.

 

◊ Praetorian

Mix of tank gear and NR, weighted towards physical mitigation because the majority of the damage the MT takes from 30% onward is not nature-based. I'll leave it to our tanks to specify.

 

Elendril

our setup is 4 groups with a boatload of melee, 4 hunters (if we have 4...we very often only have 3), and a priest per group. the hunters and melee wear NR gear to soak bolts, which leaves all of our healing and magic DPS in full stat gear. i generally have about 200 NR with aura for the fight, but i do lose a sizable chunk of attack power. basically, you have to gimp 15-16 people for the with NR gear, and the question is who can best survive the gimping. i tend to actively conserve mana until 30% (only aimed/tranq for the most part) and then go all out with rapid fire/clickable trinkets, etc. i can still do autoshot damage once my mana pool runs out, so i'm not useless like a caster who loses a bunch of +dmg/healing and mana, plus i have a lot of health even in my NR gear because of survivalist and generally high HP gear on other slots. the fact that the quest staff has a bunch of int, stam, and NR is just gold for this fight.

 

• Montantu

Haha, this is the same way AM did it until we found out about grounding. Now we set up a tank group (shaman, warlock, MT) and 4 soaking groups (16 soakers, 4 priests). We tried tank transitions a bit and got a kill or two that way, moved to the "ss let the tank die" and got a couple kills, and now just use grounding hax. Sorry alliance !

I personally wear ~230 NR buffed when I tank huhu. This consists of my purple NR (gloves, boots, chest), noxxion shackles, and the mara NR cape. Rest is wrath, living gem, styleen, bulwark -- standard physical mitigation tanking stuff.

 

• Arawethion

Our first soakers are Rogues, Warriors, and Hunters. That's about 15-18 people for us. Depending on exactly how many it is, Paladins wear either NR or full healing. Usually if we have, say 16, the two highest-NR Pallies get their gear on, and plan on stepping in front of people once any soakers die.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Angerz

Yeah, neither have we. The transition always goes smooth when he dies to the next tank, he gets heals, Huhu dies. It seems to work ok, but things can get kind of sticky.

Its gotten better every week tho, so I imagine with more practice (and the gear from each subsequent weeks raiding) the MT will eventually make it all the way.

 

◊ chalon

This is basically what we do, except we don't have druids assigned to HoTing people, they just heal the MT. And we don't use ice block, we have dorfs/pallies to cover the end if too many people die. Innervate also helps tremendously on the PoH priests, but it certainly is possible to do it without innervate, if your PoH priests conserve mana properly prior to 30%.

Our last tank transition typically happens around ~40%, or at least that's what we try to do. Then from then on out we try to use that tank until the end. Often they will die before 0%, but we have 2-3 other Warriors threating up the whole fight, so a tank death isn't a big deal, provided your healers switch to the next tank fast enough (and the next tank is ready to Shield Wall).

Our inner NR sponges are composed entirely of Rogues, Warriors, and Hunter.

We actually did something very similiar to that the first few kills. But one raid we were having repeatability issues, so we switched to our controlled tank switch strategy (with no BoP), and will one-shot her most of the time now.

 

Sunder

We do one tank switch under 30% also. Basically when we hit 30%, an MT hits shield wall. When the wall goes down, we switch. If it works, we win. When it doesn't, it's messy. Very messy.

As for paladins, we have them in full healer garb. We put warriors/rogues/hunters in NR gear. If a pally needs to take some bolts, they can always run in, bubble, and continue to heal. We found this works better than trying to make them sponges from the start.