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Old 06/03/06, 2:15 AM   #251
deric
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Executus
Originally Posted by Wodin
I think it's more the fact that the dagger drops off trash that can be 20-manned, rewarding farming and random luck over accomplishment versus bosses.
I haven't tried this for a while, but didn't they implement measures to prevent the resetting of BWL lab packs to farm elementium?

Not to mention, considering the typical trash epic BoP droprate (I can count on two hands the number of BoP epics we've gotten throughout the entirety of BWL+AQ) farming them may not even be feasible.

That said, I'm honestly baffled by the number of rogues I see complaining that a few pieces are ap/crit instead of agi-based. Is Kings really contributing that much more such that it would have made up for the 26AP lost, or are these just people who love seeing big AGI numbers and can't do math?
Before (w/BoK): 48+4.8 agi, 1 hit, 1 crit = 52.8 AP, 2.82 crit, 1 hit
After: 80 AP, 2 crit, 1 hit

Basically works out to trading 0.82 crit for 27.2 AP, which means you need a crit:AP equivalence of > 33.1 for the extra crit an alliance rogue gets to start to win out against the raw AP.

My current crit:AP equivalence is 24.56, and it'll only go up to 26 or so at the end of Naxx, so:

BoK is only really 4.8 agi, the level of gear needed to make that amount of crit win out against raw AP is not even remotely attainable, and we'd all be on our lv 70 Tier 5 sets by then.

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Old 06/03/06, 4:33 AM   #252
Steelfleece
Soda Popinski
 
Steelfleece's Avatar
 
Goblin Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Wodin
The offhand is confirmed to drop off a Deathknight Captain. Not sure about Maexna's
My guess is that Maexxna's drops from Maexxna, the final boss of the spider wing :x

If you aren't a goblin, why not?
If you are a goblin you rule

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Old 06/03/06, 5:29 AM   #253
Whitemane
King Hippo
 
Orc Hunter
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
Originally Posted by deric
My current crit:AP equivalence is 24.56, and it'll only go up to 26 or so at the end of Naxx, so:
Sorry for hi-jacking a moment, where did you find the math to do that? :-)

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Old 06/03/06, 10:50 AM   #254
syr
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Shadowsong
BoK makes an item more valuable for the agility that it has, which is a nice/important thing to consider at when looking at items. However AP stacking is a lot more optimal for DPS contributions, but it simply does boil down to the fact that most people are whining for the sake of whining. The "new" items are significantly better for DPS people are moaning we lose dodge, personally I could'nt care less about dodge, only place's I find myself wanting more is on fights like Sartura and other whirlwind AoE melee style moves. I'm hoping there arent any particularly rogue cruel fights like Sartura / Ouro anyway.

I for one am very happy/suprised to see this improved allocation - not only does it say to me that Blizzard have paid attention to people's qeuerying of the pure agility stacking but it also say's they're willing to make alterations to allocation even if it means particularly large jumps in scale of upgrade.

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Old 06/03/06, 12:23 PM   #255
Zagzil
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Warrior
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by deric
It -is- nice to have more than one weapon upgrade for an entire raid instance, and I for one am glad that my upgrade path doesn't jump from a ilvl 77 Fankriss drop to a ilvl 89 Kel'thuzad drop.
There's always the chance that the Fist Weapon (it's a hook looking thing) is a nice SS weapon. The upgrade path for Fists is not exactly great.

Honestly I don't understand why the whiners are complaining, I guess BOK is really that great? I never felt like rogues had a huge amount of agility though, so BOK wasn't as huge a buff. I mean GOA gives me more right now, probably will for a long time.

edit: I already have a dodge set built for those dumb encounters, hopefully there aren't more though.

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Old 06/03/06, 1:21 PM   #256
Adiar
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Deathwing
Ok, here it is, sorry for the long wait. I've implemented 2H as well. I'll admit, my spreadsheet isn't nearly as easy to use as Chalon's. But, if I get enough good feedback and people think I'm going in the right direction, I'll work on prettying up and making it easier to use. For the time being, I think most people here should be able to get it as long as you read the notes and version control at the bottom of the first sheet.

This spreadsheet has been patched up and changed over the last few months, so don't be surprised if you see a small error or two. Any feedback pointing out mistakes is welcomed.

I think currently, the 80%/20% is the closest I can get to modeling warrior dps. Ultimately, I think think tallying up the rage and then spending it would be the best. But that requires a lot of user interaction and isn't easily automated. Hence why the rage column is blank.

Have fun.

http://www.savefile.com/files/2721864
Loved it. One question though- why is there a Mortal Strike entry in the 2h Fury spreadsheet? When I fiddle with this it seems it's being calculated into the total dps instead of bloodthirst.
Also- when I enter weapon skill into the appropriate field, it seems to lower dps for 2h fury.

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Old 06/03/06, 1:45 PM   #257
Deathwing
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
MS is just there for comparison to BT. Didn't know it was being added to the total dps, I'll fix that and the skill thing in the next release.

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Old 06/03/06, 2:05 PM   #258
Mist
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shattered Hand
Originally Posted by Sapphrina
I'm really sold on bonescythe with the new stats. Combine with stuff like barbed choker, shroud of dominion, nef head ring or BoN rep ring and your choice of trinkets, and you're looking at some rather juicy stats. I guess you'd keep BoNEA when you have the 8/9 set bonus from the other pieces though.

The 2 new daggers annoy me. If you have sting+pugio, you'd maybe pick up one of them as a minor offhand upgrade, and it would be temporary until you got kingsfall and could swap sting to offhand. Maexxna's fang would be pretty much completely on par with sting if +weaponskill wasn't so insanely good.
At least you have two extra daggers, even if they are temporary holdovers until Kingsfall. Sword's have no such luxury. Insatiable Blade is alright for an offhand, but still pretty low DPS for a Naxx weapon, lower in DPS and ilvl than the trash dagger. For mainhand viable weapons however, we have an ENORMOUS gap, big enough that I've started a post about that gap on R&D here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=new&tmp=1#new

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Old 06/04/06, 7:32 AM   #259
deric
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Executus
Originally Posted by Whitemane
Originally Posted by deric
My current crit:AP equivalence is 24.56, and it'll only go up to 26 or so at the end of Naxx, so:
Sorry for hi-jacking a moment, where did you find the math to do that? :-)
I use a customised spreadsheet, but Chalon's Rogue Combat Daggers DPS Spreadsheet does a fantastic job (with peer-reviewed formulae)

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