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Old 05/11/06, 4:58 PM   #1
 Navaash
enjoys game, likely in minority
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Feel like something's missing? I want to have flexibility in filling out my character's slots, but sometimes the items just aren't there to support it. For example, here are some gaps in mage itemization (looking only at epic items):

- Spell hit neck with +damage
- Shoulder piece with crit or hit at all
- Spell crit cloak with +damage
- Spell crit bracer with +damage
- Spell hit belt with +damage
- Spell hit legs with +damage
- Spell crit trinket with +damage (this has about a snail's chance in hell of getting made)
- Wand with crit or hit (though admittedly the item budget probably isn't there to support it)

Also very few items exist with both spell crit and spell hit, though admittedly this is probably more of a balance issue.

I expect they'll at least deal with the shoulderpiece discrepancy in Naxxramas since that's just something that's gone unaddressed for a while, but I'm curious: do you see a hole in your class's equipment that you want to see filled? Do you think Blizzard will fill it?

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Old 05/11/06, 5:07 PM   #2
studski
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Warlock
 
Gul'dan
I had never realized that there were this many gaps. The wand thing is really annoying. They keep making these absurdly high dps wands when they could be spending the points on other stats. I mean I feel as if someday my shadowbolts wil almost be dwarfed by my sweet 350 DPS wand.

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Old 05/11/06, 5:10 PM   #3
Twid
Bald Bull
 
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Beepz
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If you want more hit, equip gear in other slot that has more hit. If that lowers the amount of +dmg or crit in that slot, look to another slot for that lacking stat.

It sounds to me like like you just took pieces that have +hit and dmg, and suddenly "wished" it was crit and dmg. And pieces with +crit and dmg, those need to be hit and dmg.

Why not just be satisfied that the pieces with hit and damage, and the pieces with crit and damage. Otherwise you're just asking to put your gloves on your feet, and your necklace around your waist. It doesn't make much sense.

Of all the "gaps" you spoke of, barring the shoulders/wand, there exists a corresponding crit or hit equivalent.

Neck - Amulet of Vek'nilash
Cloak - Cloak of the Devoured
Wrist - Bands of Forced Concentration
Waist - Firemaw's Clutch
Legs - Enigma
Trinket - Neltharion's tear

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Get you some purple drank and slow yo roll.

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Old 05/11/06, 5:12 PM   #4
Nite_Moogle
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Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
+healing/MP5 on all pieces of shaman armor, which is exactly what will be on Earthshatterer armor from early reports. There is still a pretty limited selection of good shields for shamans and paladins and not enough pure +heal weapons to offer much variety.

Of course the obvious lack of a +healing two handed axe needs to be addressed immediately! :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.

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Old 05/11/06, 5:14 PM   #5
Razzberry
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Priest
 
Eldre'Thalas
Prophecy Gloves still have the best effective regen (treating 1 mana/5 as 3 spirit) of any gloves with +healing in the game, including Faith. They're particularly good because they mix spirit with a healthy dose of mana/5. As nice as Faith Gloves are, they still don't have as high an effective regen as Prophecy. The upgrade in +healing would probably convince me to wear them instead though.

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Old 05/11/06, 5:15 PM   #6
Moos3d
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle
y.Of course the obvious lack of a +healing two handed axe needs to be addressed immediately! :rolleyes:
What I would give for a healing weapon off C'thun that every priest/druid didn't want..

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Old 05/11/06, 5:21 PM   #7
 Malorum
Moltenmich
 
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Malorum
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Originally Posted by Razzberry
Prophecy Gloves still have the best effective regen (treating 1 mana/5 as 3 spirit) of any gloves with +healing in the game, including Faith. They're particularly good because they mix spirit with a healthy dose of mana/5. As nice as Faith Gloves are, they still don't have as high an effective regen as Prophecy. The upgrade in +healing would probably convince me to wear them instead though.
When you can get more +healing and downrank your spells even further it really doesnt matter in the long run.

Originally Posted by JamesVZ View Post

Anyway. Badges suck, bring back 40 mans.

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Old 05/11/06, 5:25 PM   #8
KalelScilla
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Stormscale
Originally Posted by Michad
Originally Posted by Razzberry
Prophecy Gloves still have the best effective regen (treating 1 mana/5 as 3 spirit) of any gloves with +healing in the game, including Faith. They're particularly good because they mix spirit with a healthy dose of mana/5. As nice as Faith Gloves are, they still don't have as high an effective regen as Prophecy. The upgrade in +healing would probably convince me to wear them instead though.
When you can get more +healing and downrank your spells even further it really doesnt matter in the long run.
Druids can't go much lower than HT rank 4 because lower ranks than that one get less and less from +heal gear such that it's a wash efficiency wise to do so. Is the design goal for healers that we eventually spam rank 1 heals ?

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Old 05/11/06, 5:32 PM   #9
Razzberry
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Priest
 
Eldre'Thalas
Originally Posted by Michad
When you can get more +healing and downrank your spells even further it really doesnt matter in the long run.
Agreed, and depending on the proc rate/implementation of the Faith 8 piece bonus, I don't think the difference in regen on Prophecy would overcome the benefits gained by the +healing increase on Faith.

Although, at the same time, it'd be nice if Blizzard would stop distinguishing between Greater Heal and Heal so much for set bonuses. I already use Heal far more often than Greater Heal. With more +healing, the incentive to use Greater Heal will actually decrease because of the overhealing.

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Old 05/11/06, 5:37 PM   #10
 Malorum
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Malorum
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Originally Posted by KalelScilla
Originally Posted by Michad
Originally Posted by Razzberry
Prophecy Gloves still have the best effective regen (treating 1 mana/5 as 3 spirit) of any gloves with +healing in the game, including Faith. They're particularly good because they mix spirit with a healthy dose of mana/5. As nice as Faith Gloves are, they still don't have as high an effective regen as Prophecy. The upgrade in +healing would probably convince me to wear them instead though.
When you can get more +healing and downrank your spells even further it really doesnt matter in the long run.
Druids can't go much lower than HT rank 4 because lower ranks than that one get less and less from +heal gear such that it's a wash efficiency wise to do so. Is the design goal for healers that we eventually spam rank 1 heals ?
I hope not. What im curious about is what the "theoretical" limit of +healing would end up being to make downranking a wash. Ive always tried to have a good mix of both regen/mp5 and +healing (Sporting +745 and 89 mp5 currently with full Trans) to maximize both. I would hope that most sets would be transitioning to such a thing, especially Tier 3 because i see no conceivable reason to even consider dropping 3 Piece Transcendence for the 8 Piece Faith. I dont think blizzard was thinking ahead much when they made prophecy gloves if you look at the lack of spirit in regards to most of the gear that has been put in since then. Blizzard would have to significantly up the amount of mp/5 available in order to compensate for the loss of 3 Piece Trans to make it worth while to wear 8 pc Faith. Good to see though faith is pretty heavy on spirit overall in comparison to Trans so you could still get a very nice benefit out of a 3pc/6pc combo that would probably make up for losing Prophecy gloves.

Originally Posted by JamesVZ View Post

Anyway. Badges suck, bring back 40 mans.

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Old 05/11/06, 5:39 PM   #11
 Malorum
Moltenmich
 
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Malorum
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Originally Posted by KalelScilla
Originally Posted by Michad
Originally Posted by Razzberry
Prophecy Gloves still have the best effective regen (treating 1 mana/5 as 3 spirit) of any gloves with +healing in the game, including Faith. They're particularly good because they mix spirit with a healthy dose of mana/5. As nice as Faith Gloves are, they still don't have as high an effective regen as Prophecy. The upgrade in +healing would probably convince me to wear them instead though.
When you can get more +healing and downrank your spells even further it really doesnt matter in the long run.
Druids can't go much lower than HT rank 4 because lower ranks than that one get less and less from +heal gear such that it's a wash efficiency wise to do so. Is the design goal for healers that we eventually spam rank 1 heals ?
Druids are definitely in a different boat in this regard because Priests have so many other healing spells that we can use to make up for one or the other. HT is basically your bread and butter where we have over 3 to choose from.

Originally Posted by JamesVZ View Post

Anyway. Badges suck, bring back 40 mans.

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Old 05/11/06, 6:05 PM   #12
Lurchington
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mannoroth
I'd say +holy damage accessories of any sort.

I'm not going to get greedy and say +holy cloth, but given that Paladins are out there too, I'd like to see a mid-range ring or neck out there.

I have this: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=39537, but ironically, given that it's mp5 instead of spirit, it's less desirable by the only class it's used by.

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Old 05/11/06, 6:12 PM   #13
saramin
King Hippo
 
Human Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by LurchDawg
I'd say +holy damage accessories of any sort.

I'm not going to get greedy and say +holy cloth, but given that Paladins are out there too, I'd like to see a mid-range ring or neck out there.

I have this: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=39537, but ironically, given that it's mp5 instead of spirit, it's less desirable by the only class it's used by.
Holy-damage builds are designed to be a hybrid compromise for raiding priests who don't like getting spanked every time they queue for a BG. Why on earth would you want to squander the versatility of +dmg/heal ilvl budget points for +holy? :blink:

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Old 05/11/06, 7:26 PM   #14
Kytrarewn
In 1st, e-brake activated.
 
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Kytrarewn
Undead Rogue
 
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Originally Posted by Twid
Wrist - Bands of Forced Concentration
That's a ring.

Don't let this asshole be a US Senator: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jkU3...layer_embedded

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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Sunbeams are always made on me
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Old 05/11/06, 7:30 PM   #15
Twid
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Beepz
Human Warrior
 
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Sorry, was talking to my boss on the phone when I typed that. I meant the Bracers of Arcane Accuracy :)

Originally Posted by Kalman View Post
Get you some purple drank and slow yo roll.

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Old 05/12/06, 11:53 AM   #16
Lurchington
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by saramin
Originally Posted by LurchDawg
I'd say +holy damage accessories of any sort.

I'm not going to get greedy and say +holy cloth, but given that Paladins are out there too, I'd like to see a mid-range ring or neck out there.

I have this: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=39537, but ironically, given that it's mp5 instead of spirit, it's less desirable by the only class it's used by.
Holy-damage builds are designed to be a hybrid compromise for raiding priests who don't like getting spanked every time they queue for a BG. Why on earth would you want to squander the versatility of +dmg/heal ilvl budget points for +holy? :blink:
because I see smite builds as passable leveling builds now a days.

I've used it since 44 or so and enjoyed it, and would have no problem keeping some extra gear around for solo stuff outside of instances. I guess I'd be happy with them adding "of holy wrath" back as a random suffix.

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Old 05/12/06, 12:10 PM   #17
Louie
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
I know this has turned into a discussion on healing efficiency, but let me pose a question for you DPS classes out there.

As a hunter, I find that the best trinkets I have are blue quest rewards. I have 2 epic trinkets (Hakkar head reward and Arcane Infused Gem) but both are, frankly, terrible for my class except in very specific situations. I guess the hole I noticed is an epic trinket with solid passives that is clearly a hunter item. Everything we could put in that slot is contested by warriors and rogues, which makes gearing for it slightly annoying.

Edit to say that I forgot to put my question. What choices do I have to fill these slots?

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Old 05/12/06, 12:48 PM   #18
Rachel
Great Tiger
 
Troll Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
I would like to see some plate bracers, shoulders, and boots with a ton of strength, +hit and +crit, and very little (if any!) stamina~

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Old 05/12/06, 12:52 PM   #19
Jo_
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
on topic: why do you need to be able to have every stat on every item? It doesen't really matter if you got 10 stamina on your cloak and 1% to crit on your bracers or the other way around. I guess one answer would be "to max out stat x" but even if that was the case I'm not sure they want us to be able to do that. getting horrible mental pictures of keeping mages with 2000 hp and 1000 spelldamage alive.

Originally Posted by Razzberry
Prophecy Gloves still have the best effective regen (treating 1 mana/5 as 3 spirit) of any gloves with +healing in the game, including Faith. They're particularly good because they mix spirit with a healthy dose of mana/5. As nice as Faith Gloves are, they still don't have as high an effective regen as Prophecy. The upgrade in +healing would probably convince me to wear them instead though.
yup, that's what happens when you use the ipoints efficiently, in general any item that has a mix of usefull stats is efficient. that's why the cloak of clarity is mine.

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Old 05/12/06, 12:53 PM   #20
Blingazinga
Bald Bull
 
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Goblin Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
I would like to see a wand better than a green of wrath.

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Old 05/12/06, 12:58 PM   #21
Razzberry
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Priest
 
Eldre'Thalas
The lack of a feral druid off-hand is also a fairly big itemization gap.

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Old 05/12/06, 1:12 PM   #22
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
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Originally Posted by Razzberry
The lack of a feral druid off-hand is also a fairly big itemization gap.
You mean epic or more than one choice for an off-hand? There is a +8 to all stats book from Live Strat.

That said, I was surprised the Tier 0.5 bosses didn't drop another choice for off-hands for Ferals, but sorta makes sense since they aren't many Ferals around.

The Sunken Temple quest was a good place to put one, but they didn't.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 05/12/06, 1:18 PM   #23
Elendril
KIND OF A BIG DEAL
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Louie
I know this has turned into a discussion on healing efficiency, but let me pose a question for you DPS classes out there.

As a hunter, I find that the best trinkets I have are blue quest rewards. I have 2 epic trinkets (Hakkar head reward and Arcane Infused Gem) but both are, frankly, terrible for my class except in very specific situations. I guess the hole I noticed is an epic trinket with solid passives that is clearly a hunter item. Everything we could put in that slot is contested by warriors and rogues, which makes gearing for it slightly annoying.

Edit to say that I forgot to put my question. What choices do I have to fill these slots?
i use drake fang talisman and either ZHM or blackhand's breadth, depending on the encounter. i've argued to death the merits/importance of DFT for hunters in many a thread on various forums, so i won't do it here again :)

i don't have experience with it, but i'm told Badge of the Swarmguard is an excellent trinket even for hunters (it, like ZHM, seems to favor faster weapons like huhuran's stinger), and eventually i'll have to get around to finishing farming for my earthstrike.

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Old 05/12/06, 1:20 PM   #24
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Originally Posted by Razzberry
The lack of a feral druid off-hand is also a fairly big itemization gap.
You mean epic or more than one choice for an off-hand? There is a +8 to all stats book from Live Strat.
Both. It's pretty ridiculous that there are now three dedicated feral 1h weapons (i.e., weapons with +feral AP on them) and the only acceptable feral offhand was added to the game a year and a half ago.

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Old 05/12/06, 1:38 PM   #25
Louie
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Elendril
stuff
DFT would be great but it's definitely not hunter priority, and it's rare enough that rogues still need it. ZHM is truly terrible if you have Rhok or anything slower, since trying to squeeze off all the charges requires you to beserk+rapid fire and hope for a quick shots proc. I'm looking up the swarmguard one now...

Hmm... does that stack with sunder? Does it take up a debuff slot? I can see that being useful, but not if the stack is constantly resetting.

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