Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05/13/06, 10:42 PM   #1
Bill
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Hey I've been playing a raiding shadowpriest for a while now, having cleared up to domo in Mc and downing Hakkar in zg. So far I have found it to be a great and effective manner of dealing dps, I am often one of the top dpsers in the raid. I have top notch gear for my guilds current progression.

Well I find a shadow spec definately very viable in my current stage of raiding how does shadow fare in Bwl and more importantly Aq40. For instance, if my guild was fighting Chthun in the future is there a place for a well geared shadowpriest or is such a role pointless?

While I thoughly enjoy my spec now I worry about its future validty :P

Heres my spec, any improvements for its pve effetiveness are welcome.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?bqx0scZZVGxzcxRt

And if you curious my current profile
http://ctprofiles.net/946055
Recently got cloak of consumption off hakkar but cant seem to update profile...

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/13/06, 11:37 PM   #2
Bubba
Don Flamenco
 
Bubba's Avatar
 
Undead Rogue
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Priests in BWL tend to heal a lot.

And if your topping your DMM's during raids, you really should have a word with your Rogues, Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, Warriors, hell even your Shamans and Druids.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/13/06, 11:53 PM   #3
Taeme
Soda Popinski
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mug'thol
It's not said to be effective horde side but vaguely for applying debuffs. I'm told it's alright alliance side, but I'm not alliance. You get poor scaling from +damage on your main spells, no real benefit from crit, better than usual benefit from +hit assuming you're not capped.

I loved leveling shadow but shadow at sixty really didn't seem to increase my dps. Even with the talent deaggros and TA I still had problems with mind blast pulling aggro onto me. Your effectiveness may vary.

you're the one that decided to trust me

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/13/06, 11:55 PM   #4
dojke
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Aszune (EU)
You're going to get the same answer here that you do everywhere else on somewhat rational forums:

Yes you can win fights with shadowpriests, but they're sure as hell not optimal.

There are very few (ok one) fights in AQ40 which are flat out dpsfests. The only real advantage to having a shadpriest over another dps is shadowweaving, and with the way fights work, either aggro or control reasons prevent people from outright spam nuking shadowbolts like you can vs. say Golemagg or Ragnaros.

Your target healer composition is going to be 14-15 healers on most fights, which means either a) you will be healing thus rendering your spec worthless, or b) you will be dpsing at lower effectiveness than a mage or lock or rogue or hunter.

So can you take shadowpriests and win? Yes. Is it effective? No.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 12:10 AM   #5
arch
Don Flamenco
 
arch's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Al'Akir (EU)
There are two fights in AQ40 where shadowpriests can be useful. Ouro (depending on tactics) and C'thun, especially phase 2.

Guardian of Fire PvP since 2005!

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 9:07 AM   #6
Bill
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Jaedenar (EU)
In terms of dps I realise that melee should be outdpsing me soon... acess to epic weapons will guarantee that im sure. However I'm surprised that other casters later on would overtake me much in dps, I seem to be far above most casters in terms of dps, unless Bwl gear scales me horrificly low on me vs them.

In terms of gear scaling (mindflay suffers from a poor +dmg bonus) how does it interact with shadowweaving (15% more dmg) and shadowform (15%) does this mitgate or negate the poor scaling from +dmg at all?

Would you be able to elaborate on how shadowpriests can be effective in ouro and Cthun by anychance?

And basicly in your opinion, should I pack away my epic dps gear now and respec or is there a decent place for one of me in a 40 man raid lategame? (again I'm worried how I could possibly progress from the top to the bottom of the dps meter so to speak :< )

Oh I never mindblast in instances generally, while this gives a big boost to dps it generates massive aggro and its damage per mana point is far inferior to mindflay (and particually shadow/w/pain which gets 133% from dmg gear).

Have you guys experianced full epic and properly specced shadow priests in raids and measured thier effectiveness, like in Bwl and Aq40? I'd love to know how they did. ( A healer respeccing shadow is surely a differant thing as they don;t have acesss to good dps gear)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 9:27 AM   #7
Elerion
Great Tiger
 
Worgen Priest
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Shadow priests are inferior to mages/warlocks mainly due to:
- lack of durability through stuff like evocation and life tap
- dependance on a single school of damage
- lack of AoE effects
- lack of extremely short term burst dps
- inferior gear selection due to class sets being hybrid sets at best
- worse +damage returns and virtually no crit returns
In addition, you have the less tangible effect of class drama when one member of the class is allowed to play different, (subjectively more entertaining) role.

They have the advantages of:
- Shadow Weaving being a nice bonus if you have a large warlock crew, but this is often irrelevant due to locks being threat limited.
- versatility through being able to shift to healing if you are low on healers, though not on the fly (in any efficient matter)

In a perfect world where everyone turns up every night and no one is affected by class drama/envy, having your 15th healer be a damage geared shadow priest might not be a bad idea due to versatility. A shadow priest will never ruin your chances of doing an encounter. In the end though, it's not optimal, so you're usually better off letting your mages and warlocks get that uber damage gear, and relegating priests to picking up the crumbs.

As for your spec, it looks pretty much optimal for a dedicated PvE shadow approach. I would consider distributing the Mental Agility points into Imp Mind Blast or Silence, which will very slightly decrease your durability, but increase your versatility a bit.

Norway Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 10:11 AM   #8
• Fogbug
๏̯͡๏)
 
Fogbug's Avatar
 
Undead Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
whoa it's Bill :o


United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 11:07 AM   #9
Romothecus
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
You mention C'thun, where the biggest advantage of being a Shadow Priest is probably Silence. As Elerion said, it's a pretty good idea to get it.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 11:11 AM   #10
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
Praetorian's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
You can't sustain the damage output needed to be useful in long PvE fights without Judgment of Wisdom. Sorry.

In shorter fights, or as an Alliance priest, you definitely can do some very good DPS and be useful to the raid if you get epic shadowmage gear. But good luck finding a guild that's happy to give you equal priority on stuff like Bracers of Arcane Accuracy, Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal, Neltharion's Tear, and so forth. If you aren't allowed to take them until after all the mages/locks, then you'll never be able to really contribute. Horde-side, that'd be a huge waste of resources, in my opinion.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 11:38 AM   #11
Bill
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Jaedenar (EU)
damn :/

My guild is happy giving me any dps item i want if I have enough Dkp for it, so getting those bwl items you mention woulnt be a problem.

But I'm not alliance...

I guess I might aswell respec soon to a good old faishoned healer :P

Maybe one day horde will get eqivalent to BoW. Until then I'l pack my shadow gear in the bank I guess.

I do regually farm manapots/oils ect for pve effectiveness but I guess in late game raids everyone is using that anyways.

To Fogbug : Yes its Bill!!!!!! Wait.... who am i? :P

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 11:52 AM   #12
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
Praetorian's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Bill
Maybe one day horde will get eqivalent to BoW. Until then I'l pack my shadow gear in the bank I guess.
The problem isn't BoW, though BoW is quite nice. It's JoW. Because the judgment can proc on every tick of mind flay, it ends up effectively massively reducing the cost of your mind flays. There simply is no Horde equivalent, and it returns a tremendous amount of mana over a long fight.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 12:11 PM   #13
Bill
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Ah I see, I can imagine that being quite wonderful for mindflay specificly.

Well, I'd rather be a healer on horde than a shadowmage on alliance :>

Thanks for the input even though you've spoiled all my fun, much appriciated, I'd hate to be a burden to my guild later on.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 12:49 PM   #14
Elerion
Great Tiger
 
Worgen Priest
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Praetorian
The problem isn't BoW, though BoW is quite nice. It's JoW. Because the judgment can proc on every tick of mind flay, it ends up effectively massively reducing the cost of your mind flays. There simply is no Horde equivalent, and it returns a tremendous amount of mana over a long fight.
Just to nitpick, I'm not sure this is true, although I haven't tested it.

Last I checked, Mind Flay is considered a DoT through game mechanics, unlike Arcane Missiles. Blackout only has a chance to proc on the initial cast, so I assume the same would be true for JoW.

Still, ~24 mana saved on average per cast is a ~10% mana cost reduction on your typical nuking pattern (on encounters where JoW is feasible/worthwhile to keep up), so it does help alliance shadow priests, just not that much.

Norway Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/14/06, 12:54 PM   #15
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
Praetorian's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Ah, hmm, that's what I get for speaking without firsthand experience. I figured it was like AM -- any Alliance shadowmages out there to weigh in?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raiding with ferals, moonkin, shadowpriests, etc Liandra Public Discussion 74 08/29/06 7:49 PM