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Old 06/07/06, 11:56 AM   #166
dfinberg
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Dalaran
As Elendril pointed out, that's only half the fix. You then would still want to optimize for the cooldown of aimed shot to be an integer multiple of your adjusted weapon speed. Because of aimed shots bizarre mechanics, it lets you take 2 for 1 attacks. It's just almost always right to optimize around getting those off as often as possible,.

1 year old twins means no WoW for me. But you just wait, as soon as they get a little older it will be my own stable of gold farmers.

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Old 06/07/06, 12:06 PM   #167
 Kurisu
So damned Devious
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
They do seriously need to make a difference in weapon preference in either talents or weapons : / Weapon Spec talents are nice but turn into such vanilla effects. I know it sounds wierd since most guns are fast against crossbows being slow but seriously need some difference in weapons. As long as bow and crossbow DO NOT get + crit weapon spec. >_>


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Old 06/07/06, 12:16 PM   #168
kharen
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
The Venture Co (EU)
What about making aimed shot an "on next attack" ability, like a ranged heroic strike?

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Old 06/07/06, 12:28 PM   #169
Keltan
Tayledras
 
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Tarkis
Orc Hunter
 
No WoW Account
The LAST thing I want to see is special bow/gun/crossbow specialization talents. Getting a nice "bonus" 50g talent respec everytime I upgrade/change weapons? Yeah, I'll leave that to the poor Arms warriors, thanks. (It would be "great" to have say, bows and guns get +crit, or +speed or +extra attack, and then have crossbows get something as worthless as mace specialization...)

That's one of the things I love about hunters as opposed to rogues/warriors. What's that? You changed weapons? Don't worry about it, your talent spec still works!

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Old 06/07/06, 12:33 PM   #170
Deris
Great Tiger
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Executus
Originally Posted by kharen
What about making aimed shot an "on next attack" ability, like a ranged heroic strike?
Then pvp becomes a complete mess :/

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Old 06/07/06, 12:37 PM   #171
 Kurisu
So damned Devious
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Keltan
The LAST thing I want to see is special bow/gun/crossbow specialization talents. Getting a nice "bonus" 50g talent respec everytime I upgrade/change weapons? Yeah, I'll leave that to the poor Arms warriors, thanks. (It would be "great" to have say, bows and guns get +crit, or +speed or +extra attack, and then have crossbows get something as worthless as mace specialization...)

That's one of the things I love about hunters as opposed to rogues/warriors. What's that? You changed weapons? Don't worry about it, your talent spec still works!
well wouldnt be bad considering the talent refund change next patch


Aimed shot being next shot would probably make it more interesting for guns like injector/blessed : /.


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Old 06/07/06, 8:51 PM   #172
Moridin
Piston Honda
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Silvermoon
the thing about making it "next attack" is that then it'd basically eat up an auto-shot completely, and you'd not talk about losing 0.3 or 0.6 auto-shots, since you'd always lose 1, so if they wanted to avoid nerfeing the damage while they were at it, they'd have to add something else (and not really add more damage, it'd be too overpowered for pvp/cashgrinding I fear, if they were to add a normal auto-shots damage on top of the Aimed-shot (which allready is auto-shot+600))

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings,
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Old 06/09/06, 5:45 AM   #173
Zeboim
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Daggerspine
I had this idea a few days ago when I tried to think of a way to stop the mins and max of the 10 second rotation with the only variable being speed. A few days later after refining it I came up with this:

Aimed Shot will get reworked. It will influence three shots
The first is the normal Aimed shot with the exception that the bonus damage varies from +600 at 3.4 speed to +900 at 1.5 speed.
The second shot is the autoshot that follows the Aimed shot. It will have a 2.8 normalization.
The shot after is tricky. My idea was to change the cooldown between the second and thrid shot so the rotation will always be exactly 10 seconds. For example, a 3.4 speed with 15% quiver:
0.0 Aimed shot starts
3.0 Aimed shot fires
3.0 Autoshot fires
3.0 cast multishot
4.09 Next autoshot fires
7.04 normal autoshot
10.00 autoshot fires
10.00 Aimed shot starts

To make sure that the fast shot doesn't cause dips and peaks in dps when using different speeds, it will be normalized to how long it takes to fire. In the example shown, it will be normalized to 1.09.

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Old 06/09/06, 6:01 AM   #174
Moridin
Piston Honda
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Silvermoon
Dont you mean to switch the aimed shot around for their bonus? 900 for 1.5 and 600 for 3.4? and do you mean that you remove AP normalization from Aimed? and what will be aimed's speed, will it be weapon speed? If it's still AP normalized and always 3. then giving 300+ extra damage to the precisley calibrated boomstick seems weird.

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings,
Look on my Works ye Mighty, and despair!

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Old 06/09/06, 6:06 AM   #175
 Shalas
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Aimed Shot (Rank 6)
310 Mana 8-35 yd range
3 sec cast 6 sec cooldown
Requires Ranged Weapon
An aimed shot that increases ranged damage by 600. Cannot be used in combat.

Make Arcane Shot get Weapon Speed/3.5 benefit from +damage gear. Bam, hunters are just as broken, but now they benefit from more than one stat on armor.

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Old 06/09/06, 7:34 AM   #176
Judia
Banned
 
Murloc Paladin
 
Grim Batol(EU)
Originally Posted by Moridin
Could change it from 3s cast to weapon speed, meaning any speed bow would be able to not lose auto-shot time basically. Would of course have to remove the normalization of AP too for Aimed Shot.
From looking at the math, the problem isnt just the cast time, but the cooldown.
The 6second cooldown means that the most efficient weapons have shot speeds that are factors of 6; so 3,2,1.5 or 1. The slower weapon will win on overall dps because of the multi damage, and also because the cast time of Aimed is normalized the 3.4 weapon wins out because the cast time exactly bridges time between autoshots.

Removing the normalization on the cast time only half solves the problem, because weapons exactly fitting into the 6s cooldown will still winout (and again the unnormalized attacks favour the slower weapons).

The complete solution would require:
Non-Normalization of the cast time and damage on Aimed.
Normalization of the damage on Multi.
Non-Normalization of the cooldown.

Because that completely removes the requirement of the weapon speed to fit into a cooldown or cast cycle. But that would require a completley new mechanic, where by you set the cooldown of aimed to something like: Weaponspeed*2+.2

More interestingly this would actually give real variation on weapons. The faster weapons would give higher dps becase you could cast more Aimed Shots in a given time period (because of the flat damage bonus on the skill) while eating up mana much faster. Slower weapons would give greater burst damage (better for pvp), and use less mana. Infact if Multi were normalized, but aimed non-normalized cast,cooldown, and damage, then Faster weapons would favour aimed cycles and slower weapons multishot cycles. Giving a vairiation in playstyle depending on your preference of weapon types and speeds.

Assuming that is a good thing, perhaps it is a little too much to ask for ?

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Old 06/09/06, 8:13 AM   #177
Zeboim
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Daggerspine
Originally Posted by Moridin
Dont you mean to switch the aimed shot around for their bonus? 900 for 1.5 and 600 for 3.4? and do you mean that you remove AP normalization from Aimed? and what will be aimed's speed, will it be weapon speed? If it's still AP normalized and always 3. then giving 300+ extra damage to the precisley calibrated boomstick seems weird.
Its my fault, I worded it badly. I meant for the 3.4 speed to keep its +600 bonus and for the 1.5 speed to get a +900 damage bonus. Anyways, I want to scrap that idea. I had a bunch of ideas and I combined them all not realizing it would make faster weapons far better than slow ones.

But the rest of the idea should makes things pretty equalized. Aimed shot will be 3 second cast with 2.8 normalization. The second shot will be 2.8 normalized, and the third will be normalized to its speed.

The point of making the third shot shorter(or faster depending on speed of the bow) is so it lines up perfectly with the multishot cooldown. This will make the 9 second rotation not practical and the 10 second rotation king.

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Old 06/09/06, 11:14 AM   #178
Kinv
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Dethecus
The problem with most ideas is they end with a DPS nerf...... and while it's nice to have fixed game mechanics, lower DPS is never a good thing espicially with how much DPS mages are pumping out on Test. Hopefully if they do change it resulting in a DPS nerf they do something to compensate for the loss... (Un-Nerf Mortal shots!)

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Old 06/12/06, 10:45 AM   #179
Starks
Piston Honda
 
Murloc Hunter
 
Perenolde
Rumour has it the Nerubian Slavemaker was changed (again) to 3.20 speed...

If it's true, is it still a clear upgrade over Ashjere'thul?

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Old 06/12/06, 11:07 AM   #180
Moridin
Piston Honda
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Silvermoon
http://www.thottbot.com/test?i=53595 - Thottbot at least seems to think so, I see no sensible reason to do that, considering the insane weapons other classes get, so hope it's some error somewhere.

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings,
Look on my Works ye Mighty, and despair!

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