Upgrading PvP sets - Page 10

Fukasa · 05/26/06, 7:25 AM

With population imbalances on many servers hitting very annoying levels, and battleground queues approaching times of 1hr+ in queue to play a 10 minute game, I have a bad feeling about the change to the deserter buff. Looking at Mal'Ganis, where horde generally has 30+ minute queues, and typically 1-3 organized pvp teams running on both factions, Alliance AFK'ing out of 1/2 their games artificially reduced the queue to 30 minutes, if they are forced to stay and play every one of their games, we could be looking at much longer queue times. Typically CP farmers afk out of games that they feel are not ideal CP/Min or whatever metric they may use. Having to suck it up and play the hard matchups will lead to one of two possible outcomes.

1, Longer queue times as more games will be actually played rather than forced to end. (All other arguments aside, this to me is still the most annoying as far as the 'fun' factor of PVP)

2, Alliance and Horde pvp teams coming to mutual agreements and many more games will be thrown in some sort of alternating way to maximize both teams CP.

If you're competeing against another pvp team at any given time, any long game is killing you, not only are you tied up here, but the other team is rollin pugs while you're stuck in this dead locked WSG. It would be a pretty sad fix if the end result was teams still AFK'ing out, and eating the 15 minute debuff, making queues for Horde even longer, and Alliance still gaying up pvp to maxmize CP.

Horde/Alliance referenced as it is on Mal'Ganis, I'm sure most other servers its opposite.

EDIT: Option three indeed would end up being insta-queue faction sits in their graveyard to just get the game over with, no need to alternate games when one side gets in 30 seconds later, while the other has to wait an hour.

Mem · 05/26/06, 7:50 AM

Originally Posted by Fukasa

With population imbalances on many servers hitting very annoying levels, and battleground queues approaching times of 1hr+ in queue to play a 10 minute game, I have a bad feeling about the change to the deserter buff. Looking at Mal'Ganis, where horde generally has 30+ minute queues, and typically 1-3 organized pvp teams running on both factions, Alliance AFK'ing out of 1/2 their games artificially reduced the queue to 30 minutes, if they are forced to stay and play every one of their games, we could be looking at much longer queue times. Typically CP farmers afk out of games that they feel are not ideal CP/Min or whatever metric they may use. Having to suck it up and play the hard matchups will lead to one of two possible outcomes.

If the minority side afks out, you might have shorter queues....but you play more afk games or are in one of the pugs, that gets steamrolled....don't think this is the better choice. I'd rather see the deserter debuff stacking or lengthened by another 15 minutes.

oldmandennis · 05/26/06, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by XI-

Originally Posted by oldmandennis

Quick note from the test server - You can buy at least the blue set with out regrinding. You will need to pay for it and any enchants you want.

Untrue, unless they've changed it in the last 18 or so hours, I know a former GM who couldn't buy the rank 10 gear.

Did he derank all the way out of the officers quarters? I guess I'll double check sometime.

XI- · 05/26/06, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by oldmandennis

Originally Posted by XI-

Originally Posted by oldmandennis

Quick note from the test server - You can buy at least the blue set with out regrinding. You will need to pay for it and any enchants you want.

Untrue, unless they've changed it in the last 18 or so hours, I know a former GM who couldn't buy the rank 10 gear.

Did he derank all the way out of the officers quarters? I guess I'll double check sometime.

Nope, he was rank 8 or 9, and went to buy the chest/helm so he could go blue helm/chest (which is roughly equivalent to HoER + BP of Anni), epic shoulder/pants/boots, and gauntlets of annihilation.

• frmorrison · 05/26/06, 7:03 PM

Now the changes make more sense. See Drysc's response.

The PvP rewards added are being provided as new items for players that want to achieve those ranks. The ranking system is intended to allow players of a current rank access to specific PvP rewards, and those rewards are what is available to a character of that rank. From a design standpoint, opening retroactive rewards to players potentially devalues the efforts of players who attempt to maintain their rank or climb to a higher rank. For players who chose not to maintain their rank, their accomplishments are hopefully something the player enjoyed or found rewarding, and they obtained the rewards due to them at that time.

The changes made to the rank 12 and 13 items were done to bring the overall stats of the items more in line with what those ranked items should be. We recognize that some of the changes made have veered from the original stats, and the original reasons people fought to obtain these sets. With that said were going to be bringing some of the stats back in line with what the sets originally had, but still increase the values. If you have feedback regarding items that you feel changed too much, we'd appreciate that feedback so we can evaluate that feedback for further tuning.

I see what they were thinking, but they didn't respond to the new Rank 14 weapons issue.

diospadre · 05/26/06, 7:07 PM

Were the old rank 14 weapons changed? I thought that there were just more caster options made available, which makes sense.

Zagzil · 05/26/06, 7:14 PM

Originally Posted by diospadre

Were the old rank 14 weapons changed? I thought that there were just more caster options made available, which makes sense.

No, they just added some caster options and an offhand sword.

Groglox · 05/26/06, 7:14 PM

This new post makes it seem as if itsnt retroactive, which would be stupid.

Elendril · 05/26/06, 7:14 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

The ranking system is intended to allow players of a current rank access to specific PvP rewards, and those rewards are what is available to a character of that rank. From a design standpoint, opening retroactive rewards to players potentially devalues the efforts of players who attempt to maintain their rank or climb to a higher rank. For players who chose not to maintain their rank, their accomplishments are hopefully something the player enjoyed or found rewarding, and they obtained the rewards due to them at that time.

I see what they were thinking, but they didn't respond to the new Rank 14 weapons issue.

they actually responded to exactly that issue, since the principle is the same.

XI- · 05/26/06, 7:36 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Now the changes make more sense. See Drysc's response.

The PvP rewards added are being provided as new items for players that want to achieve those ranks. The ranking system is intended to allow players of a current rank access to specific PvP rewards, and those rewards are what is available to a character of that rank. From a design standpoint, opening retroactive rewards to players potentially devalues the efforts of players who attempt to maintain their rank or climb to a higher rank. For players who chose not to maintain their rank, their accomplishments are hopefully something the player enjoyed or found rewarding, and they obtained the rewards due to them at that time.

The changes made to the rank 12 and 13 items were done to bring the overall stats of the items more in line with what those ranked items should be. We recognize that some of the changes made have veered from the original stats, and the original reasons people fought to obtain these sets. With that said were going to be bringing some of the stats back in line with what the sets originally had, but still increase the values. If you have feedback regarding items that you feel changed too much, we'd appreciate that feedback so we can evaluate that feedback for further tuning.

I see what they were thinking, but they didn't respond to the new Rank 14 weapons issue.

They still don't really make sense. What makes the people who hit rank 14 this week, more deserving than the people who hit rank 14 last week. When does it cut off?

Itchyfingers · 05/26/06, 9:27 PM

Originally Posted by Calantus

Originally Posted by Digo

The kiddies whining on the forums about WoW not being a pvp game are right. It cannot be done in a MMO environment with persistent worlds.

Now I agree with you on the first statement there, but I don't agree that MMOs cannot be PVP due to persistance. The reason is because MMO PVP is a very different animal to CS or DoTA. A duel for instance, in CS it begins when the match begins, right? Well in WoW it doesn't begin when the countdown hits 0, it begins way before, when you start collecting your current gear or when you last respecced. That's just the way of the game, it isn't flawed, just different to what everybody seems to expect. I laugh at the people who say "you just won because of your gear" (which is sometimes true, since I'm not much of a duelist, focussing entirely on the group aspects of being a priest) because they just don't get it.

MMOs are not purely about skill, they are about developing your character just as much if not more so than they are about skill. Somebody might be better at pressing the right buttons at the right time in the duel, but if I've done better in the "gearing up" aspect of the game then I deserve to win if I did. They failed to compete on the gear level and the results are both predictable and quite fair within the game system. People complaining about it is a holdover from the FPS mentality that everything has to be fair right when the countdown ends. Different games. Different systems.

That's also why free upgrades are a bad idea (in a vaccuum, not arguing this specific case) because the whole point is that you have to earn the gear to compete just as much as you need the skill. Giving free upgrades to bump people up to the current progression just ignores the whole premise of gearing up in the first place.

Very interresting way of looking at it, and it makes alot of sense to me. Its really like someone complaining about losing in a RTS game, saying they have more skills in using the units, while your "only" good at collection resources (and with that winning by having a bigger army).

oldmandennis · 05/27/06, 3:17 AM

Originally Posted by XI-

Originally Posted by oldmandennis

Originally Posted by XI-

Untrue, unless they've changed it in the last 18 or so hours, I know a former GM who couldn't buy the rank 10 gear.

Did he derank all the way out of the officers quarters? I guess I'll double check sometime.

Nope, he was rank 8 or 9, and went to buy the chest/helm so he could go blue helm/chest (which is roughly equivalent to HoER + BP of Anni), epic shoulder/pants/boots, and gauntlets of annihilation.

Dunno what to tell you. I am now standing in front of the quartermaster with a Bloodguard rank, and can purchase the legonaires gear.

XI- · 05/27/06, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by oldmandennis

Originally Posted by XI-

Originally Posted by oldmandennis

Did he derank all the way out of the officers quarters? I guess I'll double check sometime.

Nope, he was rank 8 or 9, and went to buy the chest/helm so he could go blue helm/chest (which is roughly equivalent to HoER + BP of Anni), epic shoulder/pants/boots, and gauntlets of annihilation.

Dunno what to tell you. I am now standing in front of the quartermaster with a Bloodguard rank, and can purchase the legonaires gear.

Maybe it's a bug with the horde vendor's. The alliance vendors you've never been able to purchase from once you lost the rank. We tried it on live with an ex-FM trying to buy the gear too.

• frmorrison · 05/27/06, 1:02 PM

Originally Posted by XI-

Maybe it's a bug with the horde vendor's. The alliance vendors you've never been able to purchase from once you lost the rank.

That is the way it is supposed to work, you need the Rank to buy the items. Maybe this rule is changed on Test to allow testing of the new items.

deric · 05/27/06, 4:22 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Originally Posted by XI-

Maybe it's a bug with the horde vendor's. The alliance vendors you've never been able to purchase from once you lost the rank.

That is the way it is supposed to work, you need the Rank to buy the items. Maybe this rule is changed on Test to allow testing of the new items.

I just tried on Test with an (alliance) ex-FM, currently rank 7 warrior, and I was able to buy both the blue and epic pvp sets (but not the R14 weapons, obviously)

Maybe there was a ninja change made in response to all the whining?

Fendryl · 05/30/06, 10:16 AM

Semantics I know, but are you actually buying the items?

A lot of people mistakenly think they can purchase the items because they're not red'd out, however the red'ing is for the usable nature of the item (which is based on lifetime ran).

oldmandennis · 05/30/06, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Fendryl

Semantics I know, but are you actually buying the items?

A lot of people mistakenly think they can purchase the items because they're not red'd out, however the red'ing is for the usable nature of the item (which is based on lifetime ran).

Oops, that's what it is.