This discussion needs more numbers.

Might went from ilvl 66 epic with haphazard budgeting to ilvl 66 epic with str, sta, resists, and +def.

The PvP gear didn't get reallocated, it got buffed across the board. There is a difference there. Can someone compare old ilvls to new ilvls on these items?

A difference in the technical aspect yes.

However, what is the practical gameplay difference between taking items that were horribly horribly designed and doing the budget better, and simply increasing the budget of already decently designed items?

The point is the PvP gear shouldn't have been changed, there should have been a new tier added to the top. Of course Blizzard can't do this because their honor system is a pile of shit, so the changes to the armor should have waited until the changes to the honor system went in.

Looks to be around ilvl 74-76, or around the same ilvl as Tier 2. Just without wasted points in resists.

PvP gear gets to stay one tier below the best PvE gear.

Current Epic pvp sets are ilvl ~65. New ones look around ilvl ~70.

Looking at the rogue epic set, the old one gave totals of 937 Armor, 12 Str, 65 Agi, 164 Stam, 3% Crit, 92 AP, 1% Dodge, 2% hit.

New set gives 1319 Armor, 0 Str, 143 Agi, 164 Stam, 4% Crit, 0 AP, 0% Dodge, 5% hit.


Not only is it an upgrade in level, it's also a relocation in stats.

The issue with Might is different from the issues with the PvP sets though. Might was just plain poor for tanking, and at the time a tanking set was very much needed to allow for progression in raid difficulty. PvP sets, on the other hand, were fine when they were released. They've just been overtaken by the PvE progression. A more appropriate analogy would have been if Might was buffed to make it viable for tanking Vek'nilash.

With the current implementation of PvP, I have no problem letting people rebuy what they already worked for.

If Blizzards PvP system were different, I might object, but as it is, high ranks are stupid rediculous to get, and I think the new gear reflects it better.

Precisely. This all stems from the fact that the system is poorly designed in the first place.

-If you don't buff the pvp sets, but continue introducing new raid sets, then pvpers are left in the dust, even in pvp.

-If you do buff the sets, then pvers will complain (and will be correct to complain) that pvpers are recieveing new gear without any new effort.

-There is no way you can justify asking a pure pvper to grind rank 14 twice.

Solutions such as the one Gurgthock proposed (adding stats that only apply to other players to the pvp sets, adding stats that only apply to mobs to the pve sets, etc.) strike me as band-aid fixes to a more serious problem. The entire pvp reward system simply needs a complete overhaul.

So your telling me ... if they took the gear PvE players got from AQ40 and just simply increased the budget of already decently designed items and released them retroactively once Naxx was released, PvP players wouldn't get a bit upset?

Edit: I lose at quotes

So before AQ40 came out there was a warrior - in EJ, no less - who was talking about the epic leggings. He really wanted those, as they were fantastic and they scaled well. All those percents keep giving even when they're a bit behind. Now we're slowly progressing towards warriors having conq leggings, and that humble orc warrior never got his leggings since he being a solid raider of worth left the queue grind and joined his fellows in AQ. Where he has worked and toiled for month after month. And one day, in god knows how many fucking months, he will get conq leggings after a million other people.

And he got fucked. Nice.

They make you Warchief and Thrall goes on vacation. You have to stand there all day giving out nub quests and Warchief's Blessings, and if you don't press the Warchief's Blessing button fast enough after people throw another Head of Rend Blackhand on the towering Head of Rend Blackhand pile, you get fired as Warchief.

Also, you have to sign a bunch of stuff, and make sure to finance the Durotan national debt.

If you can remain Warchief for a week, Thrall comes back from vacation sunburnt and happy from hanging out on the beach with Jaina, and he gives you a Doomhammer, some awesome black plate armor, and a coupon good for free repairs and consumables forever.