Argh. Seriously getting tired of the "specs don't matter" arguments almost as much as the "you must be X spec or die" arguments. Not every thread is resto vs feral in a cutthroat competition to see who should and should not be allowed to raid. Someone asked about the viability of a specific spec and/or playstyle. You can spec deep feral and still be a perfectly good healer because a lot of it is gear and skill, yes... but that is not what was being asked.

So that I'm on topic I'd like to add that a dedicated LoTP druid just doesn't seem optimal to me. In any given DPS group I'd much rather both a warrior and a TSA hunter in the group over a LoTP druid, and cutting a dps group down to 2 rogues just to fit in a third buff doesn't seem optimal to me either. That means the druid has to earn the spot on their own merit as a DPSer. So either druids are as good as rogues and thus interchangeable (and why have a rogue, then?), or they have to rely on their ability to do other things. So basically I agree with the above that trying to top DPS charts is not really the way to go about proving your worth as a feral druid.

Been 30/21 since 1.8 came out...at first my feral gear was so-so, and now I've got some pretty solid pieces to compliment the build. It's a fun spec, definitely gives a lot of utility in certain situations and HotW is an amazing talent...but I see myself going with a 8/11/32 or 8/12/31 build when 1.11 hits. Swiftmend, as it currently is, is simply just too good to pass up and with it's introduction, I'm not sure if I feel 30 points in Feral is worth it anymore. I know one thing is for sure...the 30/21 build definitely gets a lot better now that Innervate is a core ability as mana could sometimes be an issue depending on what gear you were wearing.

My main gripe with Feral is with PvP...PvE, I think it's where it should be and in need of only a few minor tweaks. The issues I have with Feral PvP are 1.) I feel that in group PvP in its current state, there is nothing better a Druid can do than heal/cc 2.) cat form range issues 3.) weak survivability of cat form. I just can't justify PvP'ing in a group and using cat form that much to invest 30 points anymore, not with Swiftmend coming out. It's fun to sneak up on a cloth wearer and tear into him using cat once in a while, but I find playing the support role to be much more rewarding and challenging in a PvP environment.

Anyway, been thinking about my spec for next patch quite a bit lately, and it was nice to see a thread with some more quality Druid discussion.

If that was directed at my post, I never made the claim that specs are irrelevant and that l2heal skillz are the defining factor. I merely wanted to point out that while talents enhance a role gear is what defines it. What a druid will do in instances is set primarily by encounter design so gear accordingly and stop fretting over having your talent point distribution ratio be in perfect sync to the percentage of time you spend healing/tanking/dpsing. "Feral" and "restoration" druids are just idiot players who will default to their self-assigned role even when the encounter demands the opposite. As long as you have a spec not clearly ass-backward, contribute to the raid in whatever role is demanded of you, and can switch between roles on the fly, the rest is just pointless squabbling over definitions.

The "viability of a specific spec and/or playstyle" has more to do with your enemy than yourself. Hence the qualifier.

Bingo..It makes me cry to see fellow druids that heal and do nothing else...its like their forms arent even on their bars. I've seen some druids only shift ever to either /dance or when forced to on Nefarion. That kinda makes me a sad panda. As does seeing tons of feral loot disenchanted where they can do a ton of good in the right hands because some druids dont see the point of any non healing leather. Its akin to a prot warrior never shifting to intercept. You can get away with it, but your raid is a lot safer if you can stance dance effectively. (qualifier: alliance..horde warriors are probably more skilled by default because of the lack of fear ward).

In response to other things...specs do matter a great deal.

When I go 31+ restoration, no one can touch me on the healing meters. I'm usually at least 1% ahead of the next closest person. The 44 resto build is as good as any priest.
When I go 21+ feral...the raid benefits in much more subtle ways, and I can tank with the best of our warriors.

I do think its humorous that the old school spec is making a comeback tho... :D

Thats prolly one of the saddest things I've ever heard. I love that fight in ZG because I've done about every roll for it. I tank the raptor and we drop him first, then I heal, then I got cat for DPS. During one fight the tank got critted hard and died TWICE and I instantly became the back up tank until he got a res.

You can time the silly whirlwind in that fight so you never get hit by it. It shouldn't even be an issue.

I love LOTP and would never get rid of it now. Try living without NS for a while it really does one good. I never miss it now. When I had it I hated the times it was on cool down, now I don't have to worry about that. However, the +3% to crit is always there for me.

Very true. I'm taking the perspective of someone who goes in there with people dressed in blues and greens. In the case of some folks A LOT of greens.

This cracks me up. I remember back in the day 9/11/31 was the only pvp build because the alternatives were so crappy. People like Rubix made videos of it in action and did pretty well. Now 6 months after the full-throated feral revamp swiftmend builds are poised to become the pvp standard.

You can just spec x/1x/31 for life and know that good things will come your way.

We actually had to learn the ZG fights when we started taking enough alts in, was a very odd experience :(

Well, it's on cooldown because you needed it and used it.

And the LotP aura isn't there at all if you're healing...

Pretty much decided on 8/11/32 myself. It's so wierd that it works, but Genesis makes it so good.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?Mx00hZx0xoZEvc0eo0o to be specific.

As an aside, if Blizzard actually wants to make the other 31 point talents raid-desirable (which was the stated goal) then they have to work in caster form. Until then, they'll remain interesting and occasionally useful, but not something you really want people specing into.

Wasn't it a week or so ago, when I said I was going to get 5/5 in furor and imp mark, that you told me, "That's a horrible build."

That's right, buddy. Kaubel is wise.

No, no. I didn't say having both was a terrible build. I said the build in which you happened to have both was terrible.

That's right.

You're a terrible liar.

Hmm I disagree. I think that would be a very bad thing.

If the auras worked outside of the forms, catform would be even less viable. Even if you speced into it, 95% of druids for 95% of fights would just stand near a bunch of rogues, and heal as best they can. Other then a bit of positioning and being less efficient, it would play the same as a resto druid. It's like the difference between an enhancement shaman and a resto one, which is my original delima - I don't find it to be enough of a difference to keep me interested after a year of raiding.

Honestly tho, the more i think about it, the better that LoTP will seem. You know that blizzard is going to have to move away from the +%crit stat eventually, or people are going to end up with something rediculous like 80-100% crit rates on every thing. From that line of thinking, boosting crit rates via things other then gear could become highly desirable. It also gains more effectiveness the higher damage and ap people are bringing to the table. I do think that it should do something beyond just giving a flat 3% crit aura. Heck even moonkin gives your balance spell casting a heavy armor buff, why shouldn't lotp give something like +3% dodge or something that would help improve feral survivability.

Can anyone think of a good mod that you could put on this talent to make droods live longer while going fuzzy? I'm not sure that +3% dodge really is that terribly effective, and there's also the problem of arms warriors lighting you up with overpower.

I was just thinking that it would be cool to redesign tranqulity to make it work like it does in Warcraft 3 and give it to LoTP. Make read something like "+3 crit aura and allows the use of an unchanneled tranquility while in feral forms." This way you can be the absolute true support you are designed to be while not having to leave kitty form. Between this, lightwell and bandages...you could concievably never have to assign healers to some dps groups.

I do see the inherent problem in feral regen + tranquility + 10k+armor bear, however.

thats pretty much what im going for. LoTP needs to bring slightly more to the table then it does.