Continuation from this thread:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=6825

http://www.sigilguild.net/hamlet/Mage.xls

Don't have time for the full explanation right now. It basically works the same way as the old one.

To play with it, edit the shaded boxes on the first page, and it will output your theoretical damage in whatever lengths of combat you want. Computations for the two parallel setups are in pages 2 and 3. You can look at these pages to see which casting cycles are being counted as optimal for each setup.

Since last time:
Added Fire spells and talents. I don't know much about Fire Mage casting patterns in raids; I guessed at which possibilities I would have to cover.
Adjusted to account for the fact that Clearcasting does not proc on misses.

Limitations:
--Resists (except for the level-based hit roll) are not included in any fashion.
--Doesn't include any set bonuses
--Doesn't include any timers (PoM, AP, Combustion, or Trinkets)
--As a result of the above two, doesn't incorporate Pyroblast in any way (btw, what's the +damage coefficient for Pyro?)
--Stacking properties of Ignite are ignored; Fire crits do 2.1 damage (also, Fireball gets one tick of the mini-DoT).
--Imp. Scorch is not modeled in any serious way; it's a flat increase to Fire damage

In general, due to the complications of trying to condense information into one measure of DPS, it's much more informative to look at the back pages and get some intuition for where the differences between setups come from, rather than looking only at the final output.

How depressing.

On a 3 minute fight, I'd do 15K more damage as an alliance mage compared to a horde mage. (20% more damage).

On a 6 minute fight, I'd do 30K more damage as an alliance mage compared to a horde mage. (21.5% more damage).

On a 10 minute fight, I'd do 51K more damage as an alliance mage compared to a horde mage. (24.5% more damage).

Of course, this is assuming that the mob has JoW on it, and that I don't have mana spring totem (which I generally dont). Even so - can anyone honestly think these numbers are approaching sense?

---

Anywho - spreadsheet is really helpful, thanks very much Arawethian. Pretty much compares my belief that Fire's higher DPS only comes on trash mobs where you can fireball - for my level of gear, it seems that scorch / AM has almost identical damage output on a fight lasting 3 minutes or longer to frostbolt. And frost comes with a whole whost of better utensils for raiding compared to fire - Ice Barrier, Ice Block, Improved Blizzard etc.

Seem's Fire doesn't have much place in the game if you go raiding, unless you like burning up the damage meters on trash mobs. Outside of Huruhan, where exactly do you need an extra 6K damage over 60 seconds? (And after doing that, your DPs drops through the floor once the fight lasts longer than 60 seconds).

Also interesting to note that if you are frost specced, it is never worth using a Clearcasting proc on Arcane Missiles. You always deal more damage over any length of fight by just casting another frostbolt as far as I can see.

The number of fights where Paladins can realistically keep JoW up for the entire duration of the encounter is steadily decreasing. So don't QQ too much. Sure it helped in BWL where bosses pretty much sat in one spot and let themselves be killed, but is that really relevant now? Sacrificing one Paladin to melee any given boss in AQ40 would be silly.

Skeram - wipes debuffs on port
Family - maybe Vem, largely irrelevant
Sartura - go ahead and have that Paladin in melee with her soaking healing
Fankriss - Paladins too busy healing AoE'ers
Huhu - Paladins not in melee
Twins - Vek'nilash immune to magic, 10yd on Vek'lor dangerous but doable
C'Thun - maybe
Ouro - Paladins too busy healing
Viscidus - Paladins too busy casting Cleanse

So there you have the danger of putting too much stock into completely analytical discussions like this; often times they don't take the practical application of many variables into account.

I saw that too.

Looking at Fire spec, it seems better to cast Fireball rather than AM as well.

Wow, I feel sorry for you then.

Skeram -> Dies fast enough you only need to Evo, if at that.
Family -> Whats the danger of putting wisdom up?
Sartura -> They go in to HoJ, is pressing 2 more buttons a danger?
Fankriss -> At the start its a pain? When all the AoE bugs are dead?
Huhu -> You need to be in melee range to judge? You cant run around? People need healing (pre 30) at every given moment?
Twins -> We have light and wisdom up on each. It takes 3-4 seconds, and it helps out alot.
Ouro -> Healign what? Your raid always gets sand blasted or something? (pre 20%)
Cthun -> What is there a maybe about? Red Glare = Wisdom. Stage 2? Are you stupid?
Visc -> Only the freezes for preist/druid mana (they staff it to shatter)

Whatever Brilliance. The point is that it's not up 100% of the time like a spreadsheet would have you believe.

Thanks for taking the time to refute my post point by point and actually miss the overall theme of it. Can't get anything by you.

Well, I am trying to prove you wrong. You say you dont, I am pointing our on how we have wisdom up 100% of the time on the bosses. (Visc being an execption, but thats a diffrent fight)

Yes, that would be a *brilliant* addition - mana pots might make fire a lot more viable as a Horde mage. Cause atm, it doesn't look like being a great deal from frost...

Re. the Paladin thing - Requitas, Brilliance's point is that JoW is easily placeable on almost any fight. Again - its a 20 yard range ability, with a 40 seconds duration, to a class that has more mana to play with than almost any other. Logically, keeping it on a mob can;t be *that* difficult, and every piece of maths done on the issue seems to say it gives your hunters, mages and warlocks a substantial increase in damage. If you *can* put it on most mobs, then there really is no defense for it being around in such a broken form.

I thought the range of a judmement was 10yd. Am I forgetting a talent or something?

Nope, me getting confused on numbers - 10 yards it is... :) Still very easily doable, as Brilliance has said, although 20 yards would be more fun.

More importantly - mana potions would be a fantastic addition to this spreadsheetm as would constant scorch spamming routines, and scorch / fireball routines.

I'd ask for non CC'ing numbers as well, but I think thats too much to ask! :)