I do have prophecy gloves and was considering getting them enchanted and using them. The reason I didn't use them over trancendence was because of the 5 set bonus I had prior to getting superior items from AQ40.

I appreciate how good reactive fade is these days when I'm tired and we are on trash mob type bosses like satura :) my repair bill once I lost my 5 set bonus for certain encounters when I was too lazy to swap gear doubled :(

That said I think I will replace my last piece of trancendence with Shimmering Geta because in my guild their value is next to nothing DKP wise, everyone has them and they are pretty nice boots mp/5 wise.

Manastorm Leggings! :laugh:

Nice to see a thread that mentions overhealing without people getting... pretentious about it.

Slightly O/T though, part of the reason I've built up a comfortable level of spirit has been because of the Blue Dragon trinket which usually works out v. nicely. If the test realm patch notes are true, this will no longer give me 130% regen whilst casting when it procs. Before I got my 3-pc Trans bonus, I used to call it the trinket "that made spirit good".

Reason I'm mentioning this is I'm wondering if we're likely to see 30% less mana restored from innervate too?

It's the same effect as Blue Dragon, so it's being lost as well.

Thread Hijack for the new 60s and those trying to map out drops from the 5 and 10 man instances:

how's this for a wishlist?
Main is what I'm wearing, and scroll down to Main List DM/UBRS blues for my current wants.
http://ctprofiles.net/48987

Wow, I never noticed they added that Staff of Metanoia and those Scarlet shoulders. Those are really nice.

Your wishlist is missing rings though.

You'd do well with Emerald Flame Ring, Ring of Demonic Guile, Fordring's Seal, or the new ring from Argent Dawn next patch.

Desert Bloom Gloves are also good, probably sidegrade with Exalted Herald though.

Edit: Also Rosewine Circle is like the ring in your profile, but with +healing instead of spell crit, which is kinda lousy for a priest.

Mantle of the Scarlet Crusade
Crown of Caer Darrow
Mindtap Talisman

Exalted Herald and Hands of Power are both nice. Virt gloves are reasonable now, Devout have dropped quite a lot in price. Virt is a real pain in the ass to pick up, but the helm/boots/chest are pretty damn amazing. The boots are some of the best itemization a priest could ask for, being being +damage instead of just healing (but oh well, still good)

Redemption is a pretty nice staff, I saw it drop off Cannon Master Wiley and it had something like 63 healing and 15 spirit.

On my priest I favour the +healing and +mana/5 route. I can use say, heal rank 2 (which I can't remember the mana cost of with talents off the top of my head - think its 165) and spam it through for 2.5s casts and it heals around 1000. 2.5 is fairly longer, but even during that time you're regaining more mana and I can switch to say, flash heal rank 6 for a 1.4 second cast or even shield. My priest is an alt and her mana/5 gear isnt too great she currently has around 30 with +540 healing and 6.1k mana.

I take her through MC etc and generally going out of mana only ever becomes an issue if I start having to spam flash heal on the rest of the raid, obviously if you're not watching for other heals on your target you can swiftly end up overhealing excessively, ie. a 2.5 cast time on a rogue who already has several flash heals, regrowths etc incoming is likely to get entirely overhealed.

I also found over time that I prefer to overheal rather than cancel a heal. I could often end up in a situation where I'd spend time casting a heal then auto-cancel it, the target would take damage and I'd just have to re-cast except the person may now be taking continually more damage and thus my healing may be "behind".

To clarify concentration = mana/5?

Thankfully with the current itemisation virtually all epic +healign items come with an ample supply of spirit/concentration and usually stamina too.

You mean like the whole raid instance we just went through where the vast majority of healing items had mana/5 but no spirit?

It's not as much that continuous healing is needed (as it isn't), as that there's no reason not to do it.

If you didn't spend all your time casting heals that weren't needed, you might be able to sneak in a SW:P, Smite, hell you could even wand it up some. Anything other than just being a pure button-pushing-monkey heal-bot is far superior in my mind.

Other than the bosses where I'm out of LoS/Range of the boss, I don't have any trouble keeping SW:P up. It's generally pretty obvious when it's safe to stop healing for 1.5 seconds and cast it. I use a 50 dps wand, so wanding doesn't do anything but proc JoW :P

On fights like the emperors your FSR percentage would be very high, as spike damage is abundant and you're generally always going to be casting something every 5 seconds, I'd go with a 90ish% FSR percentage for these types of fights. However, much more relaxed, stable fights such as razorgore, the prophet, and C'Thun. You're not constantly casting, so naturally you'd have a much lower FSR percentage. Probably around 40-50%ish, maybe even lower. So what does this all mean? Here comes the data.

0% regeneration while casting (NO TRANS BONUS, NO MEDITATION TALENT)

mp5..........spirit........ Time spent in FSR
1.00..........160.00.......99.00%
1.00......... 16.00........ 90.00%
1.00......... 8.00......... 80.00%
1.00......... 5.33......... 70.00%
1.00......... 4.00......... 60.00%
1.00......... 3.20......... 50.00%
1.00......... 2.67......... 40.00%
1.00......... 2.39......... 33.00%
1.00......... 2.29......... 30.00%
1.00......... 2.00......... 20.00%
1.00......... 1.78......... 10.00%
1.00......... 1.60......... 0.00%

-On a fight like the emperors, 16 spirit would be the equivalent of 1 mp/5.
-On a fight like C'Thun, 3.2 Spirit would be the equivalent of 1 mp/5

15% regeneration while casting (meditation OR 3-piece transcendence, IF YOU HAVE BOTH, SEE BELOW (YOU BETTER HAVE BOTH))

mp5..........spirit.........Time spent in FSR[/u]
1.00......... 10.67........100.00%
1.00......... 6.81......... 90.00%
1.00......... 5.00......... 80.00%
1.00......... 3.95......... 70.00%
1.00......... 3.27......... 60.00%
1.00......... 2.78......... 50.00%
1.00......... 2.42......... 40.00%
1.00......... 2.39......... 39.00%
1.00......... 2.15......... 30.00%
1.00......... 1.93......... 20.00%
1.00......... 1.75......... 10.00%
1.00......... 1.60......... 0.01%

-On a fight like the emperors, 6.8 spirit would be the equivalent of 1 mp/5.
-On a fight like C'Thun, 2.4 Spirit would be the equivalent of 1 mp/5

30% regeneration while casting (transcendence and meditation (WHAT EVERY RAIDING PRIEST SHOULD HAVE)

mp5..........spirit......... Time spent in FSR
1.00......... 5.33........ 100.00%
1.00......... 4.32......... 90.00%
1.00......... 3.64......... 80.00%
1.00......... 3.14......... 70.00%
1.00......... 2.76......... 60.00%
1.00......... 2.46......... 50.00%
1.00......... 2.39......... 47.30%
1.00......... 2.22......... 40.00%
1.00......... 2.03......... 30.00%
1.00......... 1.86......... 20.00%
1.00......... 1.72......... 10.00%
1.00......... 1.60......... 0.01%

-On a fight like the emperors, 4.3 spirit would be the equivalent of 1 mp/5.
-On a fight like C'Thun, 2.2 Spirit would be the equivalent of 1 mp/5

So what's the better choice? Depends. Mp/5 Will always ignore the FSR, and the FSR aint' goin no where. However, lower FSR percentage fights will prove to favor spirit, but sadly theres just not enough of these to make a stacked spirit build the winner here. Also, we've never been a guild that's used a healing rotation, meaning all of our priests will most likely have higher FSR percentages. Mp/5 will almost always rule supreme, although some other nice perks from spirit include Innervate and the spirit/healing ratio talent with the dawn of 1.10. Now, I'm by no means saying you should be a regen whore like me, it's the healing whores and the balance whores that round out our group of priests and compliment my playstyle.

Eight piece transcendence is a nice set bonus by all means, but it's really only necessary for one person to use it on 90% of the encounters thus far in the game, IF that. Don't be afraid to break your sets.

Lastly, some comparisons.

Halo of Transcendence
Binds when picked up
Head Cloth
94 Armor
+17 Stamina
+27 Intellect
+22 Spirit
+10 Fire Resistance
+10 Frost Resistance
Classes: Priest
Durability 60 / 60
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 48.

VS

Don Rigoberto's Lost Hat
Binds when picked up
Head Cloth
100 Armor
+18 Stamina
+24 Intellect
Durability 60 / 60
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 64.
Equip: Restores 11 mana per 5 sec.

Assuming everyone is using the 30% regen in combat modifier, on an emperor type fight you would need a whopping 47.3 spirit, on your HEADPIECE alone, to equal the amount of regen you're receiving from 11/5. That's more than double the spirit on faith, tier 3.

Belt of Transcendence
Binds when picked up
Waist Cloth
65 Armor
+14 Stamina
+26 Intellect
+9 Spirit
+10 Shadow Resistance
Classes: Priest
Durability 35 / 35
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 26.

VS

Grasp of the Old God
Binds when picked up
Waist Cloth
75 Armor
+15 Stamina
+19 Intellect
Durability 35 / 35
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 59.
Equip: Restores 7 mana per 5 sec.

Again assuming everyone is using the 30% regen in combat modifier, on an emperor type fight you would need 30.1 spirit, on your BELT alone, to equal the amount of regen you're receiving from 11/5. That's a little less than double the spirit on faith, tier 3.

No matter how you spin this, these two items win.

Some fun sources,
http://tinyurl.com/nsjnf
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Mana_Regen

On the subject of an end-game raiding priest, perhapes the best fight where gear and how you heal really comes into play is Viscidus for alliance. Sure you could use mass consumables + spam PoH the entire time, but the best part of this fight for us alliance priests is how we can actually try to reduce the amount of consumables we need, sorta like a challenge to ourselves, and find the best way possible to heal.

How do you alliance priests heal for this fight? This fight is very exciting for me for the most part, because though it's ridiculous for alliance, I find that there are ways you can try to heal efficiently. I can get by in Viscidus (sometimes) just using one demonic rune by using heal rank 2 a lot, and the occasional PoH if needed. Switching to Renew rank 4 to top people off during the frozen/glob killing stage.

The downside to this is Toxin. Using heal rank 2 the majority of the fight leaves most of my group close to half health for a while, and a badly timed toxin can be the killer if i'm not fast enough on the flash heal/PW:S on them. It's very risky, but if done right you can save yourself a lot of mana (not to mention money).

There are situations where you just can't do anything but waste all your mana though. I remember our last kill, the first two freezes had me sitting at close to full mana, without using a single consumable. The third freeze had me at 50% mana out of nowhere, due to toxins on my group and the MT cutting it close on health.

Also, on the subject of gear, I go with a 5 piece transcendence set up, and grasp of the old god/gloves of prophecy/boots of pure thought for Viscidus, though I use 8/8 transcendence for Ouro/C'thun. The renew effect is amazing for both those fights IMHO :D

Yeah, sorry, it's probably true for horde too. Just seems like horde have at least more people that can help out with spot heals (shamans). Though most raids won't have 8 shamans, so I guess their priests go through the same thing too if they are paired with a druid.

I have to point out that Don Rigoberto's also has fewer incidental stats and 5 ilvls on Transcendence, and that Tiara of the Oracle has better total regen if that's all you're worried about.

...wait, people use this over Prophecy for any reason other than set bonuses? Also, you're surprised that a belt that's 12 ilvls higher is better?

Personally I think 90% FSR on any fight other than Vael is pushing it. The only people who should be putting up that kind of FSR numbers are looping Heal 2 and so they really don't care about spirit. I find it difficult to believe that you're doing anything else and can cast for 10 minutes straight without breaking for regen. But yeah, thanks for reposting those charts.

I pulled off 95% on Ebonroc once when seeing how little time I could spend regenning. I'm a Heal2 looper and I still rarely break 80% simply because on almost all fights there's some situation where there really isn't any reason to be casting a heal, due to not being able to (LoS/range issues), not wanting to (Nef call), or nobody to heal (assigned tank doesn't have aggro on anything).

Thought id elaborate on why the 2.39 data point is included. Depending on personal preference on how much of item budget should be spent on regen it may or may not be helpful but it provides a good worst case scenario for spirit. Other factors which make it difficult to model fully are Blue dragon trinket for differant healing patterns and the +healing bonus granted from spirit.

Blue dragon can be modelled for down ranked spam casting or rotation spam casting but becomes complex with heal cancelling, spike damage healing or cast time variability factored in.

x/5 mana regen = 550
Spirit = 230

spirit : mp5 ratio is 2.391:1

1 spirit is .25 regen/tick for priests while regenning
1 mp5 is .2 regen per second all the time

.25/2 = .125 regen per second per spirit

230 / .125 = 1840 item costing points for 1 regen per second in full regen
550 / .2 = 2750 item costing points for 1 regen per second

1840 / 2750 = 66.91% of the time needed to be in regen mode for spirit to be better on a costing basis