Brock Landers

This curse if forbidden to us under any circumstances. Not even for single pull trash mobs in MC. I've tried to argue that it saves time and will lead to faster MC clears, and that the extra +attack power isnt going to all of a sudden cause us to wipe to trash, but nobody will listen to me. “better safe then sorry” and all that.

Personally I would like to use this curse even on bosses, but for now I would be happy if they just let us throw it up on trash mobs. I know its bad news for mobs with Mortal Strike abilities, but I think it would be great for something like Magmadar or Lucifron to help speed up the fight.

Right now it takes us about 6-7 hours to even get to Domo and we almost never attempt him because people are tired and want to go to bed.

Please help. I will try and send our main tanks over to this thread. Hopefully they will be willing to listen and debate.

 

hellsoap

Your main tanks are pussies.

 

◊ Kurisu

Seriously its not like it matters how much damage he takes if he gets healed so why does his opinion matter, sure on certain bosses you want to avoid it but for the most part it does more good than bad.

SC Alts: Toremu - shaman

The other main
Kurisa- Druid

 

newladin

Spike damage in MC, never. ADD THE CURSE.

all your base, are belong to us!

 

subscience

I don't think the problem of taking 6-7 hours to get to Domo will be solved by CoR.

 

Maledict

We've been killing Vael much faster than usual over the past month and a half, to the point where we were looking at 2 tanks dying in total during the fight, and it turns uot that the warlocks had decided to start using CoR on him - it really can make that big a different to your raids DPS output.

 

diospadre

Just cast it constantly and claim its not you.

 

Brock Landers

edit: ^^^^ I cant because ive been bitching about this curse for months so they will know its me using it.

Heh thanks guys but I dont think thats enough info there to convince them. I was hoping for maybe some math or something. Like maybe actual breakdowns of how armor values and attack power works and what not.

 

Koryk

6-7 hours to Domo sound more like wipe and recovery downtime rather than taking a while to kill mobs due to them having ~600 more armor. If that's the case, CoR isn't going to do much for you.

 

newladin

Wasn't there a post with this data somewhere.

all your base, are belong to us!

 

Brock Landers

Well we used to have it down to about 5, but we took a month off for finals and graduations and stuff. Now we are slow and have a lot of rookies with us as well, so its taking a long time. I think we will be back to about 5 in a couple weeks.

 

subscience

What specifically is adding to the clear time? People meandering over boss corpses? Casters drinking and having everyone wait after a pull?

If it's due to wipes, then there's really not much that can be done other than yelling at your raid to not suck. :) But there's plenty of ways to pare down your clear times outside of specific debuffs such as CoR.

Edit- That being said, I love CoR and we use it on bosses that don't have any kind of MS-like ability. Improved Expose Armor also helps bolster physical DPS.

 

jubelio

Once you can clear MC in 4 hours, then worry about CoR, in the mean time you have bigger fish to fry.

 

Twid

Just offer them an ultimatum. Tell them you're holding summons/Soulstones/Healthstones/other curses hostage until they let you put up Reck.

 

subscience

That's just evil.

 

Brock Landers

Well increased speed wasnt the only reason why I wanted to us CoR. I just thought it would help everyone out with extra dps. Faster clear times is just a bonus.

Last night we wiped to golemag at 1%. He had 8,000 hp left. I was thinking that CoR might have been enough to take him out.


Oh yeah and I forgot to mention. They make us put curse of weakness is up on every single mob as well. Doom is also very popular. (we have lots of warlocks)

 

Staarkhand

7 hours to Domo has to mean wipes. Your tanks are being overconservative, but that's probably forgivable since they're really focused on, well, not wiping. CoR is worth using, but probably not worth adding more conflict to what I'm sure can be frustrating circumstances.

Some time start keeping track of the amount of time you spend actively fighting during those 7 hours. You'll find that if every trash kill were a bit shorter you'd be saving negligible time compared to working on your pulls, mana efficiency, forcing water down casters every second spent out of combat when you're not running, faster loot distribution, and just plain focusing. Not to mention the time a single wipe costs you.

 

Brock Landers

We used to have it down to about 5 hours with maybe 1 wipe on the way to Domo. I think we actually did it with zero once or twice. Like I said the 7 hour clear is just a temporary thing because we have about 10 new rookies and havent been back to MC in a month. We will be down to 5 again pretty soon.

We raid MC twice a week in 3 hour blocks. Once we hit the 3 hour mark we stop right then and there. Usually we kill Garr the first night, then clear to Domo on night 2. We only attempted Domo twice becuase we always hit the 3 hour mark and never had enough time.

I was thinking CoR might help us maybe down Baron on night 1 and give us time for a domo attempt on night 2.

 

• Greybone

Curse of weakness is completely useless, it's 31 less damage which is a drop in the ocean compared to what the mobs hits for. The same warlock using CoA or CoR instead will make sure the mob dies faster, meaning the mob does LESS damage in total compared to what CoW would do.

As long as you're not losing tanks, which really shouldn't be happening, CoR will help your raid immensly, so will faerie fire. Just stay away from using it on BWL bosses with mortal strikes and such, since those attacks just multiply the mobs attack power value.

 

Twid

I guess I would suggest that they do a trial run with Faerie Fire up the whole time if you don't already use it. It can give them (and you) an idea if the extra physical dps is what's slowing you down.

Then tell them that 90 attack power is 90/14 dps increase. That's 6.43 dps. If they are afraid of 6.43 dps, well,

But yeah, if you don't use Faerie Fire, use it.

 

• Wodin

CoR is one of the biggest increases in damage you can get out of a raid. Also, remind them that their tanks will do more damage, thus generating more threat and holding aggro better.

 

Thorb

I don't see how it can make that much a difference really. Sunder is already -2250 armor, this add another 640 to that assuming it stack, that's 2900, can't hurt I guess but can't do miracles either.

 

• Arawethion

I think we decided a little while ago that this was definitely false. As far as I know, nobody has parsed exactly what the damage/AP ratio is for mobs.

Still, it seems the general consensus is that it's worth using anytime a mob doesn't have a damage-multiplying attack.

In MC, this is every boss.
In BWL, it's every boss besides Broodlord (also, you should probably push it off for the Chromaggus Enrage and the Nef Warrior Shouts).

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Brissa

Like someone said already, if it takes you 6-7 hours to get to domo you have other problems than not applying CoR on mobs.
If you solve those you will be killing mobs so fast that you will hardly have time to apply the curse.

 

Staarkhand

With 5 hours to Domo, 1 wipe, I have to ask - what are you doing? Are you spending that time discussing strategy? Seriously, see how much time you're actually executing. Because you're right, saving time means more attempts.

Point is, it's not a dps issue. Every time you wipe at 1% it's fun to imagine what minor changes would have caused you to win that fight, but CoR will not turn a losing fight into a winning fight. I'm not saying don't use it, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to say, not bombing the casters or melee remembering to run out of the AoE, or whatever is actually making you lose.