c/p from one of our faqs...
Initially we started with the two-hand/gun/bow/crossbow/one-hand/main-hand/shield/off-hand set at values identical to hyz's, however there was some concensus among the hunter/rogue groups that that priced weapons too low. So they were increased.

We use a variation on the Full/Up/Down system that EJ uses, with Mains>Alts>Applicants. So there's a 9 tier list that determines what price an item is "sold" at. (Full Main, Up Main, Down Main, Full Alt....Down App.) In practice, it goes incredibly quickly. The various mods to prices are to assure a few things, the largest of them being that the items that meet those checks don't rot in favor of another drop off the same boss. Resist gear is, in our opinion, the only true "progression" loot in wow. It's the only type of loot that has the critical mass required factor. The other thing the mods accomplish is knocking down the value of nef/ony due to heads dropping, and refunding some of the cost of a quest so that they're a bit more desirable. The crap mod is never applied from now on, but when we converted over to this pricing system we didn't want people complaining about their previous purchase of items that were exceptionally low. (Yes, someone took a shadowstrike to play with).

I'd say this is the best pricing system I've seen. Yes, there are "deals". Items which are above their predicted item value are better than cost, and items which are below it are slightly worse. In practice, that doesn't matter. The only real difficulty with the system, is that some classes simply need more loot than others, and they can fall behind as a result. That's not a huge problem, but it should be mentioned.

Here's a system that I've been toying with: it (hopefully) solves all the problems you've mentioned, and it also rewards wiping on new content. I apologize for the mathematical bent of the explanation... I'm working on making it simpler to explain.

I'd love to hear some criticisms, I'm trying to work out the kinks.

Criticism 1: You will get better at MC as your DPS improves, and the time needed to clear it will lessen. Does 'g' change under those circumstances? Is the change applied retroactively?

Criticism 2: You *will* get Vendorstrikes. You *will* get Shardatons of the Shardwalker. You *will* get Earthsharder. That makes the value of the claimed "30 items" quite a bit less.

Criticism 3: You're still merely using the assigned 'x' values for loot, you're just valuing the time differently. This is no better than a standard fixed price system, and probably worse than a zero-sum system. You're just making everything more complicated.

Criticism 4: I've never been hugely fond of "C-A=B" upgrade systems. The person *is* in fact getting an upgrade and a second piece of gear, and should have to pay *some* premium for getting that first piece, even if it is situational (ie. Nightslayer Helmet for 5pc NS bonus and FR). "C - A + D=B" systems, where D is reasonable, or even "C=A*D" where D is something like 0.4-0.6 makes more sense to me, depending on how you value your tiers.

Ouch... bad (or good?) start.

Yes.

[Edit] I just realized what you meant. I think the DKP valuation system mentioned above would sort out this problem, because those "bad" items are considered in creating the "average" item value.

The difference is, each member recieves loot exactly proportional to a) the time they contributed to the advancement of the guild and b) the overall speed that the guild advances through content. It has no inflation and no bias, because each item is put on a sliding scale and retroactively calculated every time the g value changes (thus, each person's "score" is based on how much they contribute-- no more, no less). For fixed-sum DKP, the item values and time awards are "ballparked", and inflation is reduced through eventual dkp adjustment.

Granted, it is more complicated. I'm working on that part. Obviously another problem is that the item values are subjective, but hopefully the above system will solve that (and other DKP systems have the same shortcoming).

I see your point; the system is still open for improvements, but feel free to adjust upgrade values for your own purposes. :)

Here's the system I've used in my guild for iLevel-Based item Pricing. We've been using this since shortly after BWL was released.



Similar to the system Anias mentioned, it uses a formula based on iLevel and SlotMods derived loosely from Hyz's item analysis. When I designed it, I had three goals:
#1. Make a BWL item worth about 100 pts. This was to make it easy to interpret relative DKP since 100 pts = 1 item.
#2. Make Tier 2 worth about 15% more than Tier 1. At the time, Tier 2 was a side-grade over Tier 1 (for druids) so I didn't want to make the gap between the sets too large. Even with the stat changes, I feel the overall scaling factor still feels right.
#3. A simple formula that could be memorized, and contained as few "extra constants" as possible.

Here's what I came up with

Price = iLevel * SlotMod / 70

Here are the Slot Mods. When I created these from Hyz's formula, on my first pass, I found that the relative prices between items was too great. Even though a helmet contains a lot more stat points than bracers, the net stat gain when comparing the two is much closer. I didn't want people to feel that bracers were a bargain and helms were overpriced, so I adjusted the SlotMods to price the items closer together. In practice I think it has worked very well for us.

Helm, Chest, Legs : 100
Shoulders,Boots,Gloves,Belt: 90
Bracers, Rings, Necks, Wands, Shields: 80
Caster Offhand: 50
One-Handed Weapon: 110
Two-Handed Weapon: 140
Ranged (for non-hunter): 80
Ranged (for hunter): 120

Example Calculation: Bloodfang Belt: Price = iLevel * SlotMod / 70 = 76 * 90 / 70 = 97.7.


We use a couple other pricing rules:

Trinkets: Trinkets are not priced according to a formula; they are priced arbitrarily by the officers. Some trinkets are a total novelty and others are exceptional items, and this value is not captured in the iLevel. Most "useful" trinkets are in the range 80-120, but there are plenty that are priced at below 30 pts.

Resist Gear. Resist gear is priced at 25% of the final "normal" price. In rare circumstances, resist items will be priced at 50% or 75% in the case of items that contain "a little resistance" or have decent other stats.

Epics only: This system doesn't price legendaries or rares.


This system meets the three original design goals: Many tier-2 set pieces are worth 97.7 pts, and are a 15% price upgrade over Tier 1. The formula is very simple to use, and easy to exaplain to the members. It scales well, and in practice, the prices "feel right".

Again, my problem with systems like this is it ignores the fact that ilevel is not the biggest indicator of quality on an item - where the stat points are placed is equally as important, if not more so even now. Although attack power and agility don't come on items anymore, and spell damage + specific school damage don't either for casters, there's still enough wacky and wierd "bad" items out there in BWL / AQ that would be priced high under these systems, thus making sure no-one ever picked them up when they dropped.

Ilevel is a good base to start pricing out at the very best, but using it as the sole basis for pricing an item is just going to end up leaving a lot of stuff DE'ed.

Price ought to be based on item value, not difficulty to obtain. Would you price Essence of the Pure Flame higher than TOEP, even though one is trash and the other isn't, just because EPF is from Rag?

This bit is pure genious. Not only does it solve turnover related issues it changes the rate at which points scale, making the differance in points costing between ilvl 70 and ilvl 80 in your system much higher than in blizzards itemisation formula. And reducing the need somewhat to apply your own exponential formula to control point hoarding.

I see bekah post quite a lot on wow forums about various things but this loot system is outstanding. If the initial subtraction idea came from EJ as well then good work whoever did it there instead.

Id suggest anyone looking at implementing ilvl based upgrade systems or upgrade systems in general consider making the first lot of available items cheap. As T1 gets less desirable compared to T0.5 or PVP gear i love the idea of encouraging people to apply in proper gear rather than greens by discounting in some way the lowest set of gear they can buy in a system.

Well, in our particular case, the plan is to have a "gimmick trinket" multiplier, so things like EPF and so forth get priced at 25% the normal value of their ilvl * slot.

Alright.

Perdition's vs. Dragonfang Blade.
Striker's Mark vs. Dragonbreath Handcannon
NS shoulders vs. BF shoulders

Value needs to be based on item worth, not where it drops. Head of Nef is priced higher than a T2 Chest in our DKP system, for example (I didn't design it, I don't run it, I just make meanspirited comments about it to the officers and try to push them towards a better system). Why? MDSR is a great ring, but it's certainly not a better item than T2 chest pieces are!

I prefer to make the price based on value of item, not on where it comes from.

Perdition's Blade (77) is higher ilvl than Dragonfang Blade (74). So it costs more, what's wrong with that?
Striker's Mark vs. Dragonbreath Handcannon, Striker's of course is better for melee DPS, but pretty sure the gun's better for Hunters than Striker's Mark is.
NS vs. BF shoulders; well if you want parity T2 pieces per slot should cost the same across all classes, so even though there's that one case where NS is better than BF from a pure DPS standpoint, for the better of the system all T2 shoulders should cost the same amount, which should be greater than T1 shoulders.

But which hunter would really want dragonbreath hand cannon?

That's certainly 1 issue with ilvl pricing for warriors and rogues; currently the best ranged weapon to get is the first one you get off Magmadar. Especially if melee classes pay the same 130% figure that was cited earlier....that means pricing guns almost as high as 2hers.

What warrior would consider Draketalon Cleaver and this Dragonbreath Cannon equivalent items?

I guess its a bit different for hunters and melee weapons...as there are many more options and in general they are more powerful and of larger importance to the user. Basic Hakkar drops from ZG have higher stats than even the Nerubian Slavemaker.

Well, that problem is easy to solve if it is an issue for you. Have a lower ranged weapon multiplier for rogue/warrior purchases of ranged weapons, but make it so they can only purchase it for that cost if none of the hunters want it for the full price.

Ok... well even if the stat budget is the same, the armor budget isn't.