◊ Drauk

We have killed Ouro twice, so im not asking for detailed breakdown of the fight.

The thing that worries me that this fight is too dependant on the luck. I.e. having ouro stay up for 3 mins is making fight much more easy, especially if he stays up for 3 min before first sumberge. In several tries today we didn't had a single time he stayed for 3 mins.
Also getting sand blasted before submerge is really nasty, always means several deaths.

Any advice on these 2 problems ?

Fun is for casuals

 

arch

Seems to me that you haven't fully countered sand blast through correct positioning...

As for the time he stays, I have no clue what causes this, nor should it matter. Sure multiple burrows is annoying and lengthens the fight, but should be doable anyway.

 

◊ Praetorian

I genuinely have no goddamned clue what makes him stay up for 3 minutes instead of 90 seconds but I'm really happy when it happens.

 

Veng

I like the randomness of Ouro, personally. Sure, the more 90s ones you have the trickier surviving becomes, but their are plenty of ways to prevent deaths while he is submerged and when he re-emerges. As for getting sand blasted before a submerge, I don't really see how it would kill people, just make sure everyone is topped off quickly and you should be fine. I suppose it would depend on your strat and who is getting SB'd, though.

 

◊ chalon

I hate this god damn fight :angry:.

 

Digo

Also, it this the shittiest fight for rogues in AQ or am I overlooking something massive? Rogue DPS is like playing chicken with a bullet train.

 

◊ Drauk

We have splited the raid in 2 parts, and using a warlocks to eat a major portion of sand blasts. However, some of them still hit either half of raid.

Fun is for casuals

 

Chimera2402

We have myself and another lock aggro whoring as much as possible in between the two halves of the raid in order to soak up as many as we can but theres usually quite a few going to one half of the raid.

 

◊ chalon

Pretty much. You can run in and DPS for like 10s after every sweep, but even doing that there is a possibility that you get killed. If he chooses your side for a Sand Blast (which will still happen occasionally even with solid SB control), and chooses to melee you immediately after said blast, you die. Usually for us rogues will just be shooting their bows until 20%, when they run in and try to do as much damage as possible before dying (which can be a non-trivial 30-40k).

 

◊ Praetorian

Basically. Our rogues don't do shit until 20%, when they try to go out in a blaze of glory.

 

Elendril

this fight is the reason one of our rogues has ash'jrethul.

i'm not even kidding. well, maybe about it being the reason, but not that he has ash :-P

but yeah, i really like ouro because it's kind of like a big geometry test, except without the proofs and with more giant worms.

 

Zagzil

I put on as much Stam / Dodge gear as I can, and pray for the best. I've died every time, but we still win.

But yes, I hate this fight with a passion.

 

Brodda Thep

That should never happen. Do you understand what sand blast does? I don't possibly see why he would want to melee you unless he just sweeped and you are the only person in range.

Getting a ton of 90 second times makes it a good deal harder. Most people die to being somewhat low health when he emerges under them. If all you get are 3 minute ups you can take this guy down in only two submerges. Basically you go from a 15 minute fight to a 9 minute fight.

But really, mastering sand blast is what makes the last 20% a likely wipe or a consistent kill.

Sand blast basically completely wipes your aggro if you resist or you don't resist. So we have three warriors (you could probably use more if you wanted but we found that sweep can really screw with aggro if you have more than three as you won't have a clear tank transition order) to rotate into the tank spot. tank1 gets sandblasted and goes to healer spot, tank2 goes to tank spot and gets sandblasted and goes to healer spot, tank3 goes to tank spot and gets sandblasted and goes to healer spot. Tank1 goes to tank spot, Damage dealers get sandblasted. Tank 1 gets sandblasted and the pattern continues. (however, the first sandblast on the raid usually happens after the first warrior gets sandblasted in the above example)

You want to get him to sandblast the damage dealers just before he enrages. This means you have one minute (as he rotates sandblast through all of the three tanks) to kill him before the raid will get sandblasted again. A sandblast near the end of the enrage will kill a lot of people.

Do we still have problems with him? Yes. Sometimes he doesn't cooperate and doesn't sandblast the raid in a timely fashion. Sometimes we get him to 20% and he STILL submerges then when he comes up he immediately sandblasts and starts throwing boulders. Sometimes a tank goes LD and he submerges early for whatever reason. Or he will kill a tank during enrage stage. Or two tanks will get sandblasted in the confusion. Any one of those things can spell disaster.

In fact, just this last tuesday was the first time we one shotted him. But I think this will become a lot more common as we get used to the three tank rotation. (we were using two tank rotation before)

But it usually hinges on being able to control three sandblasts from the point he gets to 20% till he is dead. If you can't do that, your raid will get shredded.

 

Veng

Mmmm, I don't really see whats wrong with the fight in terms of Rogue DPS really. Our damage meters are usually inverted versions of every damage meter in the game sans fights where agro isn't an issue (Cloth ranged DPS slightly above rogues and DPS warriors). I can see how certain strats (if you rely on warriors eating all blasts, agro would be too touchy to risk rogues I guess?) would force rogues to bow, but modifying your strat a bit allows rogues to DPS full time more or less.

Heres our first kill sync'd DPS meter, for reference.

 

◊ Praetorian

There are a lot of different Ouro strats out there, and many of them work, which is part of what's interesting.

Yes, I can see how CQ's tank-rotation strat would allow for some melee DPS. The way we set it up, there are only four people meleeing Ouro at any one time (warriors) and all they take turns getting sand-blasted. Between eating a blast every 20 seconds or so and eating every sweep, they have basically no aggro. A rogue that walks in and starts to melee is likely to die within seconds. The tradeoff is that over 50% of our raid never eats a single sand blast, and we still have strong DPS. If we get lucky and get a 3-minute uptime to start the fight, he'll be at 50% when he submerges for the first time.

Edit: Hmm, those DMs are interesting. I have the DMs from a recent kill, partially obscured by a tooltip, but you can make them out:


Slightly different, huh? (And yeah, that's two tanks and three rogues at 16-20.)

 

Veng

Yeah, the way we do it is similar, but not only relying on warriors to eat SB's. Basically just two camps, one for ranged DPS with druids OOR of SB behind them for healing, and one for Healers/Rogues. 4 tanks on Ouro and one to his side building agro (So on a tank SB it will go to him). Sandblasts trade from Warriors to ranged and then back to warriors, the only real time rogues need to be careful is after a tank SB where all but one warrior agro has been wiped.

That said, the big drawback for our strat on Horde is our lack of BoK, would give anything for it. If we don't have 2-3 warlocks for whatever reason mages risk getting 1 hit by a sandblast, and even with blood pact it is close occasionally.

 

◊ Praetorian

Have you ever had a scenario where all four of your tanks got swept, Ouro sand-blasted and stunned them all before they could re-engage, and he submerged? We used to do something similar to what you do, but modified it to eliminate that (remote but oh-so-frustrating) possibility.

 

Veng

It's possible, if the warriors really screw up. Ideally, the one warrior highest in agro should have him facing away from both camps, with all 3 offtanks stacked behind Ouro. So if he did sweep and blast the MT, the other warriors would not get hit by the blast. Biggest problem is if the OT's aren't high enough in agro after he blasts the person MT'ing at that point, he will kill a rogue. To be safe, we usually run out every SB to avoid that :x.

 

Leviandan

We put our entire raid on the north side of Ouro (at the start at least, this varies depending on emerge position), with all our hunters with a shaman and a druid as their healers on the south side. So the aggro pullers are directly opposite of the main raid. The hunters on that side are wearing their good (epic) NR pieces and just DPSing their asses off. Downside with this though is that our mages/warlocks have to go kinda slow on DPS, so they don't pull the sandblast on the main raid. During the entire fight, the raid will get a few sand blasts, but not many. Worst thing that can happen is if he sand blasts the raid -> instant submerge. That's almost a certain wipe right there, unless people are really quick with the Greater Nature Protection Potions.

We tried letting rogues melee, but they just seemed to get aggro VERY easily and die. So we have the rogues follow the healers on the hunter side, killing bugs that follow those healers after Ouro emerges.

Only killed him once so far, but it was a pretty nice kill when everything went as it should :)

 

xkmonkey

We have 4 tanks for this fight. We set them up in two groups of two, in the 'Y" formation compared to the rest of the raid. The two tank groups, and the rest of the raid are all 120 degrees apart. For the sweeps, there's usually one warrior who resists the sweep and stays in melee range, otherwise intercepts are usually the norm. Ouro then starts to melee that person and the usually sandblasts the one group, and then the other tank group picks him up. We don't send in rogues until the 20% mark. When he's up for the 3 minutes, it sometimes happens that a ranged will pull aggro and get most of the raid sandblasted. This doesn't happen that often, and usually no one dies, so we don't concern ourselves with it too much. I can't ever remember a ranged pulling aggro on the 90 second uptimes.

Our wipes are almost always attributed to 2 things. Too many people dieing during the submerge stages, and not having enough people up for the enrage, and having him submerge at 20% and having him come back up and immediately enrage. The second thing really only happened to us right after they changed the timing on how long he was staying up. Since then we've been able to time it pretty well. We just need to learn to move away from the invisible ground ruptures better.

 

Brodda Thep

That's crazy. We don't go soft on aggro at all during our fights and during a 3 minute up time the raid will probably get hit by sandblast twice. All the other one will hit a single warrior. But we still only get him to about 65%. Now that is without any melee damage. Though I definately think we need to start trying it. However, it is just so damn easy to get him to 20%. It was the transition to 20% that was giving us the problem, but we seemed to have fixed that. So now we would rather make sure to have every single rogue available at 20% to make sure he drops. Though I personally think I could melee him with no problems if I watched sweeps and knew when sandblast will hit the raid and not a warrior (which is pretty easy on our set up).

If rogues and warriors went in after the raid was sandblasted I am pretty sure they could melee for at least 40 seconds before pulling aggro as long as they backed out for sweep. We will probably give that a try on our next run to see if helps get him down faster. I really hate long fights like that.

It does look like everyone uses a variation of the 'Y' formation. Just who is where differs. We have one tank at one prong, ranged at another with their healers, then Offtanks and MT healers at the third.

 

Khlysti

Hmm, seems we managed 2 ouro kills without any real understanding of sandblast at all :P

Ah well, seems the big raid killers of sandblast -> submerge -> quake on most of the raid and raid being sandblasted post 20% are both counterable hopefully we will now have someone alive at the end of our 3rd ouro kill.

It does make me wonder though, as to how many other guilds out there are managing to kill bosses, but by a much much harder method than they could be using.

 

porkbone

We use a strategy very similar to CQ's tank-rotation and our rogues stay in for basically the entire duration of the fight. We're an Alliance guild, so BoS may skew things, but when our DPS eats the sand blast just before the tank rotation starts over again, we've not had a problem with Ouro going back to the first tank. If DPS doesn't eat the sand blast, then yes, Ouro will generally go on to a rogue over the tank who first got sand blasted. Since switching to this strategy, we haven't had any issues with bad sand blasts or rogues getting it over tanks.

 

Oneeye

I'm in Venge's guild as above, and we get him to 50% on a 3 miniute as well with that strat. For our "Y" formation we have 3 tanks on one side, another by the mt healers, and all the ranged/their healers out there. We usually have some rogue dps, unless they get scraped :p

 

Zagzil

Hmm I haven't had much of a problem meleeing him from 100-20% recently as long as I am careful about sweep and sand blasts, occasionally I get sand blasted but I have yet to die pre berserking for a few weeks now, maybe it's because we use a larger warrior rotation (up to 6 at times).