So come my guilds third Mc run (a month or so ago) we got the first and second binding (from the 2nd and 3rd Mc run respectively). We were obviously overjoyed with our great luck, we gave both bindings to our maintank who seemed a fairly solid and good guy.

Down the line and with us starting attempts in Bwl it seems our tank in near full might and with both bindings has rerolled on a new server. To add futher insult to injury, yet another binding dropped off Garr during this time and that tank quit wow :<

Especially in new guilds and new servers rerolling is a probelem and my guild feels particually screwed as you might imagine, but how can a guild keep vaulable items in the guild. It seems that even fairly valid and trustworthy people can just vanish, and it seems particually easy to lose druids and tanks as healing/tanking burnout ensues for some people (who obviously in the end din't enjoy tanking or healing)

Argghgh, 3 bindings lost, I need to tear out my hair :<

Sounds like bad luck to me.

Not sure that you can do any more than you did. The bindings went to people who you thought were solid, but then one of them switched servers and the other quit the game. Even if you made people swear oaths and so on before letting them loot legendary pieces, if they decide to quit the game, then they decide to quit the game. All you can do is try to make your guild as attractive a place to be as possible, if you're making good progress and your guild is a fun bunch of people to play with, you're doing everything you can.

Why the hell have youve seen 3 bindings in about 2 months of MC? Who knows how long ive been doing it and ive only seen 1 binding drop.

That shit is so random its funny. We got our first two bindings the same run and our second pair within a month and a half. Since then 7-8 months ago we havent got anything.

In my old guild, the first tank left, the second tank hopped guilds after getting one binding (and got the second binding on his first week with his new guild), the third tank ground to HWL and then had computer problems and left for months (but is now back with my new guild), the fourth tank got the first binding and then got home from work fifteen minutes late and missed the second binding, and the fifth tank couldn't even get a Quel to drop, let alone a binding.

Then the guild collapsed.

Then the next Horde guild to start MC got two bindings inside of a month. But they can't progress in BWL so they can't make Thunderfury. My new guild rarely if ever runs MC (thank God) so we probably will never get a Thunderfury. (On the upside, Nefarian is a pinata filled with Crul'shorukhs and Ashkandis!)

Still only one Thunderfury Hordeside on our server. Bindings of the Windseeker SUCK.

There's a joke on my server that my guild makes tf the opposite way, 100 bindings and 2 elementium bars. Need garr bindings for 4th tf, all of them are still in guild. It's so annoying in raids, everything has that whirlwind around it 100% of the time, impossible to see which way mobs are facing.

Unfortunately that's just the way it goes. People drift in and out with varying degrees of equipment, but they always leave better equipped than when they came. I have to admit I get a little pissed when I see an ex-EJ rogue or mage still using the junk they got under our care. (YES HVITSERK I AM CALLING YOU OUT*)

*no hard feelings

We had it happen with Thunderfury's ... First Thunderfury we got, well, we never got it - the guy got both bindings and then left the guild to apply to another guild. Was a trialist there for six months before he failed his trial and never got it completed.

Second TF stopped playing, then came back and joined another guild with some real life friends.

Third TF left the guild to apply to another guild, that happened just recently.

50% of the TF contribution Horde side from our guild and we have 0 in guild now :(

Thunderfury is a curse, we have 2 warriors waiting for Garr binding and 1 warrior waiting for Geddon binding. We have had many bindings drop in our guild :P

Funny/sad thunderfury luck/badluck stories aside, when/if the paid server transfers comes, and IF they allow transfering a char from 1 account to another, you could, assuming the people who got it were very very nice people, have the char moved to the account of a current player in your guild (worse geared tank). However, chances are they'll instead move the char to the server they rerolled on. The guy who quit might do it though. Until then, you can do nothing.

Goddamn EJ warriors refuse to quit

I'm fairly certain I've read that this will be possible from a blue poster and yes, the implications are scary. The system is probably very much unfinished so how it is going to work out in the end is probably anybody's guess.

the character transfer between accounts was stated to only be allowed for accounts in the same household to avoid abuse.

How does that work (granted, it would still me nice for me if they did)?

Credit card address.

Something like that I guess, or the address you register when making the account, since some people pay with pre-paid gamecards so credit card info is a unreliable thing to assume everyone has.

The 15 year olds that jump between guilds on a whim aren't going to file lawsuits.

There's some fun jurisdictional problems, though!

I hope this is just a thought project and not anything anyone here consideres doing ever, because it's crazy.

doubly so, because as per the EULA, all "virtual property" is the sole property of Blizzard Entertainment. Even if a contract were signed, there is no way that you could properly enforce it, as the "items" are not either party's "property" in any sense of the word. I would also question the consideration that could occur to give effect to the validity of such a contract. How does one exchange things of value to seal the contract? The only thing that either side "owns" is the client, and only based upon a license, which is revocable by Blizzard virtually at will according to the EULA.

Furthermore, establishing damages would be a nightmare for the court to figure out. How can one accurately place a monetary value on a tier 2 tank? Do they go by the prices of accounts sold with similar gear? Considering that there is no "legal" market for accounts, it would be difficult to establish a firm number, which makes a judgement even more likely.

THe specific places in the EULA that are relevant to the above discussion of the property.

§1 A -> you acknowledge and agree that you shall have no ownership or other property interest in the Account, and you further acknowledge and agree that all rights in and to the Account are and shall forever be owned by Blizzard Entertainment.

§10 -> You have no interest, monetary or otherwise, in any feature, content or availability of World of Warcraft, any Game Data (defined in Section 13(J), below) or in any terms or conditions of access to or use of World of Warcraft.

§11 -> All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to World of Warcraft (including without limitation any user accounts, titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogue, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, "applets" incorporated into World of Warcraft, transcripts of the chat rooms, character profile information, recordings of games played on World of Warcraft, and the World of Warcraft client and server software) are owned by Blizzard Entertainment or its licensors.

I suppose you could attack the suit explaining that a DKP system is a payment system that provides incentive for players to "work" for it. However, you still haven't dealt with the thorny problem that there is *nothing* to sue over. Neither the guild nor yourself owns ANYTHING in the game in a real and legal sense.

I'll do more digging on Lexis if people are interested in such things.

/2nd Year Law Student

The consideration is your being allowed to play the game. Also I'd think that it wouldnt be a contract for property but a service, namely not removing the character from the guild. Assuming that being in a guild is a desirable thing, consideration for making such a promise would be guild membership, simple as that. FMV of "stolen" characters can easily be discerned from eBay, but since the characters are unique a court may order specific performance and return the character to the guild.

Theoretically, you are correct, but you still haven't solved the fundamental problem - the guild and the character's "owner" have nothing to sue over. All of the property is owned by a third party. It's difficult to sue to recover something that someone else rightfully owns and which you have never owned. You maintain the right to possess, with limitations, but this by no means makes a toon "yours". It says quite clearly in the eula and ToC that you or a guild doesnt own squat in this virtual world.

I do suppose that it could be worked around if there was money involved outside of the game that dictated behavior in the game( to constitute valid consideration, seperate from a membership agreement or dkp system, which are on somewhat shaky ground as to being consideration) however, this may not even be allowable under blizzard's license to the end user.

Its an interesting question, but i fail to see the possiblity of even the slightest amount of sucess on the guild's part litigating such a dispute.

All the EULA discussions are based on the presumption that the EULA isn't void and starting to discuss whether EULAs are valid or not is a good way to spend several hours, at least in the European legal community. Blizzard might just walk into a legal minefield when they allow char transfers to different accounts. But, we will see...as long as I don't get paid for thinking about this problem, I won't do it.

I can see the issue of transfering chars of quitting members to those players willing to continue. We have a wave of quits right now, first one of our full T2 resto druid quit, zipping all his gear in progress, another, equally geared priest just announced as well that he will quit within 2 month and several additional raidmembers more or less chimed in this tune...

On the other hand: gearing up new members isn't that hard. Of course legendaries are not easy to replace...but at least in our raid, most new people will reach 5/8 of T2 within a few weeks and competition for AQ sets is rather small as well.