Does anyone else actively not use it? Other than our tanks going to about 200 after an FR aura goes up, no one actually wears FR in our raid.
With infinite mana, the spike dmg isn't killing you, and we just heal through it (without a stupid # of healers - done it this way with 11 healers and no stacked DPS classes).
I've heard a lot of people talk about Vael as an FR cock-block, or mention Vael and the UBRS buff in the same sentence.
So is this a rare thing or do other people say screw FR too?
(Prompted by a stupid number of posts in the WoW forums, and a post I just saw here in the razorgore thread.)
The problem with healing on Vael is mostly time: time spent healing your group vs. time spent healing the tank. If your group has FR, the group healers can add a substantial amount of healing on the tank as well. If it's not needed, though, you might as well wear less FR and get that much more DPS.
Basically, if you're wiping to Vael because people are dying (other than to BA), wear more FR. If you're wiping to Vael because the buff runs out, don't.
I wear about 120FR unbuffed, our tanks wear full. Not sure what the healers do.
With 120FR, I've never felt that I was in danger of dying, and if my healer dies, I just pop an FR pot and I'm golden until they make someone else deal with it.
It's only a resist cockblock in that you have to get 4-5 tanks all geared up with good fire resist (ie. lots of cores and/or gold spent). As far as the amount of resistance actually needed? No, not really.
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I still consider Vael an FR fight. Better to undertax your healers so that if you get an unlucky streak of exploding healers you have some leeway, in my opinion. You can wear heavy FR gear and still kill Vael in 2 minutes. No, don't wear shitty greens and such, but I expect everyone to have 3-digit FR for Vael, precisely because all that matters once you know the fight is the transitions.
My FR gear hasn't left my bank for about two months ever since I forgot to equip it for Vael and didn't notice a difference. I generally maintain a pattern of 2-3 Flash Heals on people not in my group followed by a PoH, and the only time I haven't had the PoH heal me to full is when a transition goes badly and I get hit by his breath. Unless everyone else in my group is wearing max FR, Spell Warding means that I'm often not even the most-damaged one. Incidentally, Spell Warding is disgustingly good in BWL. I'll sometimes get BA at 2 minutes, but all that means is that I get to beat the rogues on damage with some help from PI.
From a healers perspective (the one fight I still actually heal for... heh) wearing FR makes it much less stressful on the healers. It needs to be everyone across the raid though.. it doesn't help if 3 out of 5 people in my group have 150 FR, and the other 2 have 40 FR, because then the healing will end up being uneven and I'll have to flash heal them at some point. It frees up more time for me to watch out for the MT/OT's and anyone else I see spiking dangerously low.
From my observations, having 150-160 buffed FR (including either totems or auras) is a nice spot to land in. It's enough to gaurentee almost always resisting 25% of the dmg, with 50% resisted quite a bit too. No need to go higher and gimp yourself by wearing greens.
Just like any other fight, as you outgear the Vael encounter, this all goes out the window. If you can get Vael to 15% before the first tank transition, it probably doesn't matter if you're all at 0 FR. :)
From my observations, having 150-160 buffed FR (including either totems or auras) is a nice spot to land in. It's enough to gaurentee almost always resisting 25% of the dmg, with 50% resisted quite a bit too. No need to go higher and gimp yourself by wearing greens.
That's pretty much what I am for, as a rogue. Doesn't gimp my damage hardly at all, and I'm sure it makes life easier for whoever has to heal me. But ultimately only you know whether you're suffering more problems caused by "everyone dies" or "Essence of the Red runs out and Vael is still up."
On behalf of the healers on your raid, keep your dick in your pants and wear your bloody resist gear.
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I believe in wearing FR gear in this encounter. As Gurgthock pointet out, there may always be a streak of bad luck, when Vael decides to chain explode priests/druids. I feel there is a notable difference between 150 buffed and 250 FR buffed. I might not max my res totally out (Ony Key vs. Ony Tooth pendant for example) and I might dump one green res ring, but that's all. DPS is mostly a nonissue, going down because somehow the crap hits the fan is.
I generally dont wear fr for Vael unless we're really low on healers. Only fight I really bring it for is Firemaw, while your ap might be nerfed, not having to step out for the duration of the fight more then makes up for it.
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We all still wear mostly maximum FR gear on Vael. Although we could easily go without it, it makes life a lot easier for the healers, and provides a lot more stability in case Vael decides his first 4 BA targets are all going to be priests.
At the end of the day, wearing DPs gear instead of FR gear might drop the tanks needed down by one, and end the fight 20 seconds earlier - but even our little guild has gotten vael dead before the 3rd tank dies from BA in our FR gear, so I don't really see much advantage in not wearing it.
Also, when learning the fight, FRR gear is a must - like Ragnaros, it really helps. Once you have learnt it, you can ease off on the restrictions.
On Firemaw, any DPs not wearing their maximum FR is going to be doing less DPS. Our damage charts *always* look the same on that fight - the people who gimp themselves to be wearing as much fR as possible always are at the very top of the chart.
I think a part of the reason many opt for fire resistance in this fight is that when Vael first came out he was for many a very laggy experience in terms of FPS, which cut out on potential healing and potential tank threat generation. Also, the 1-hour timer gave us a lot of time to prepare instead of just trying over and over again (our server regularly had 1 hour queues at that time so disconnect meant taking in a new guy).
We farmed FR for a simple reason - not because we couldn't outheal the damage but because our (off)tanks couldn't (consistently) outthreat the healing the damage was making necessary. Dampen magic helped somewhat on that and with fire resistance gear Vael did go down.
I always stayed in max dps gear. Vael is all about your tanks learning the transitions.
Yeah as beer said pretty much all of us wear regular gear, except the tanks of course. Beyond that, our paladins use concentration aura over fire resist since it leads to heals going off faster. We generally have 3 druids a priest and myself healing the tanks with everyone else healing their groups. We generally drop Vael in under two tanks, so it works out. Now that we have two Thunderfury rogues I'm interested in seeing how much faster it can go.
Then again my previous guild used an all out FR strat and managed to kill him pretty consistently, so to each his own I guess.
Can't rogues do enough DPS in fire resist gear since you have infinite energy anyway?
yes, but they are rogues they alway want to do more if they can cheat death. just, you know, teach some of them a lession and let them die (the ones with 40fr) and say "hey, i bet you could have done more dps/higher on the dmg meter if you had more FR!"
Can't rogues do enough DPS in fire resist gear since you have infinite energy anyway?
Can't you heal me enough even in my DPS gear since you have infinite mana?
(I personally shoot for around 150-160 buffed, that seems to be enough for the POH spam to hold me up.)
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Can't you heal me enough even in my DPS gear since you have infinite mana?
(I personally shoot for around 150-160 buffed, that seems to be enough for the POH spam to hold me up.)
Global cooldown is still a limiting factor. Besides the only time clothies do any real damage in this fight is when they get BA, you're probably doing a disservice to your raid by soaking up heals that would have kept mages and locks at top dps longer. Shoot for 200FR and you can load up on the DPS gear imo.
Can't you heal me enough even in my DPS gear since you have infinite mana?
(I personally shoot for around 150-160 buffed, that seems to be enough for the POH spam to hold me up.)
Global cooldown is still a limiting factor. Besides the only time clothies do any real damage in this fight is when they get BA, you're probably doing a disservice to your raid by soaking up heals that would have kept mages and locks at top dps longer. Shoot for 200FR and you can load up on the DPS gear imo.
BoLight and POH spam and 150 FR is plenty. I don't normally get any heals beyond POH. My point was more that you should wear only enough resistance gear to make healing you reasonable. Wearing too little gets you killed, or gets your healer killed from heal aggro and THEN gets you killed from no heals. Wearing too much makes you suck. For me, for my raids, 150 is enough.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
I swap bf hood for molten helm with fr libram (and put on ACLgloves, they have fr as well), other than that I stay in normal gear, never had complaints from the healers. Then again, with splash resists I'm around 130 when fr aura comes on.
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I still consider Vael an FR fight. Better to undertax your healers so that if you get an unlucky streak of exploding healers you have some leeway, in my opinion. You can wear heavy FR gear and still kill Vael in 2 minutes. No, don't wear shitty greens and such, but I expect everyone to have 3-digit FR for Vael, precisely because all that matters once you know the fight is the transitions.
This actually happened to my guild on last week's BWL clear. We wiped at 4% and we were wondering why until we realized that besides the main tank, the first 5 people to die of BA were healers.
So it seems the 0 FR approach (it works out to between 30 and 80 on everyone due to incidental resists and mark, but you get the idea) is in the minority.
From a repeatability standpoint, we usually run 14-16 healers, and have used no additional FR with as few as 11.
We have no problems using either a single druid or a single priest to keep entire groups up, 3-4 Paladins handle the tank.
I think the difference may be concentration aura enabling higher effective HPS from our healers - and BoSalv making the additional healing not a problem.
06/12/06, 2:04 AM
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