Crusader's Coliseum - Gladiatorial Combat Without the Annoyance of Arenas - Page 4

Sillia · 08/11/09, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Cranberry

I suspect, given that they're linked, he's looking at WoWHead - which is also inaccurate. Check the comments, both items have their proper stats laid out.

I didn't realize that the cached values were affecting it. I saw the tooltip, which said level 219, but also said 203 DPS. Then I checked wowhead, which also said 219, and showed 203 DPS. I checked the comments, and they also said 203 DPS, and 219 stats. I assumed that it was still a mistake. There is a comment on wowhead that says to delete the cache, but it was posted ~18 hours ago (before I posted). Thanks for the heads-up though.

Arafela · 08/11/09, 12:07 PM

Paletress:

As Mage, I spend most of the fight on her spellstealing her HoT. Because I noticed that after she finishes with healing herself, she starts healing the Nightmare. Do not recall if slow still worked once she is invunerable to damage in the nightmare phase, spellsteal did work, and saved our healer some trouble because the spellstolen HoT patched up the damage I took from the smites she casts.

THE BLACK KNIGHT

P2 as Disc healer, I just spammed Glyphed Holy nova and made sure noone got to low to die to the Corpse explosions.
P3 as Disc healer, Got the Tank shielded etc, then Hymn to top everyone off, followed by Holy Nova's and some bubbles on those hit hard by the debuff.

• emptyrepublic · 08/11/09, 2:06 PM

A note on Eadric the Pure I did not see mentioned in this thread yet. When he does his Hammer of Justice the debuff is a clear-able "Magic" debuff. If you can remove the debuff on your own (Bubble, Every Man For Himself, etc) or someone does it for you (Paladin Cleanse) it is possible to "catch" the hammer he throws. If that's the case you get a new toolbar for a moment with a single action which is to throw the hammer back for what appears to be ~15,000 damage.

When I heal I try as much as possible to clear this on the party member as it is 15,000 damage that need not be healed and is a small DPS bump for that player.

Tinwhisker · 08/11/09, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by emptyrepublic

When I heal I try as much as possible to clear this on the party member as it is 15,000 damage that need not be healed and is a small DPS bump for that player.

It should also be noted that someone might want to hold onto that hammer if he is sufficiently low and use it to kill him for the achievement.

Masaru · 08/11/09, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Cranberry

I suspect, given that they're linked, he's looking at WoWHead - which is also inaccurate. Check the comments, both items have their proper stats laid out.

I have to admit, I'm completely baffled by this entire 213 vs. 219 issue. Is the intended item level of the heroic 5-man items suppose to be 219? Because they have been 219 since the second night of the patch for me but I was under the impression, they were suppose to be 213. For instance, is wowhead showing [Spectral Kris] and [Gaze of the Unknown]to be accurate with these stats?

Spectral Kris
+30 Stamina
+30 Intellect
Blue Socket
Socket Bonus: +4 Critical Strike Rating
Durability 75 / 75
Requires Level 80
Item Level 219
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 36 (0.78% @ L80).
Equip: Improves haste rating by 46 (1.4% @ L80).
Equip: Increases spell power by 487.

Gaze of the Unknown
+54 Stamina
+74 Intellect
Meta Socket
Red Socket
Socket Bonus: +8 Hit Rating
Durability 60 / 60
Requires Level 80
Item Level 219
Equip: Improves hit rating by 57 (2.17% @ L80).
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 67 (1.46% @ L80).
Equip: Increases spell power by 115.

Aod_Macabre · 08/11/09, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kilted Raven

P1 isn't going to challenge any reasonable Ulduar guild who can clear the gear hurdle. Simple tank swapping, fire avoidance and add clearing, atlhough the Snobolds are a fun way to present the gimmick. No real advice here from our experience, it's pretty straightforward.

P2 is the tricky one, mainly working out who has the debuff and moving appropriately. However, we've had a few instances of dps spiking out very fast in P2, the incoming damage is reasonable. The fairly standard tactic of eliminating one of the worms seems workable, Ulduar geared healers should be fine to handle the soft enrage that follows.

P3 is easier than P2, The breath weapon freeze is easily mitigated by a simple left/right/centre split for your healers, and the charge avoidance on the yeti is very simple. It's a straight line charge, and apart from one player who doubled back because he thought he'd gone the wrong way, we never lost anyone to this. Once you get to here you're pretty much home free. The only issue is as other posters have mentioned, the Yeti does hit hard and your tank can spike out if you're not being proactive with your heals. Stack up regens during the stun phase because the tank seems to take a whack or two before the breath weapon hits. I'd say Phase 2 is the hardest of the three simply due to the movement and assessment needed to get your debuffs correctly cleared.

Somethings of note from my raid group this week:

1. 10 man beasts is quite easily two healed as long as only the appropriate people are taking damage (as it should be for any self-respecting raid). In the 2 healer format, P1 seemed to be the most demanding on our mana pools (holy Paladin and Resto Druid, both in a mix of HM10 and Norm25 Ulduar gear).
2. The 25 man beasts encounter seemed A LOT easier than the 10 man version. We wiped for about an hour on the ten man, mostly learning curve issues, but we one shot the 25 man later in the week with only 18 of the 25 having done the 10 man version. I found that I had zero mana issues and a much easier time keeping the tanks from dipping too much. We did have replenisment in 10 and 25 man as well and I did not get hymn or mana tide in the 25 man.

Malleus · 08/11/09, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by Tinwhisker

It should also be noted that someone might want to hold onto that hammer if he is sufficiently low and use it to kill him for the achievement.

Though it should also be noted that it only lasts for 8 or 10 seconds at most. We got a Hammer to throw when he was at about 20% health, and it expired before it could be thrown for the kill.

Sillia · 08/11/09, 5:16 PM

Eadric's hammer is either 14,000 damage, 15,000 damage or 16,000 damage (wowhead has all three listed under uncategorized spells). I'm not sure which one is which he uses. You get the hammer if you get the hammer debuff dispelled off you, or you just somehow manage to get lucky and he misses with it. The result is this buff: Hammer of the Righteous - Spell - World of Warcraft which apparently does 15k holy damage. He will give up once you drop him below 10k hp, so you can just DPS him down to between 10 and 15k, then just wait until he uses the hammer on somebody to obtain the achievement.

Talgog · 08/11/09, 5:34 PM

Originally Posted by Masaru

I have to admit, I'm completely baffled by this entire 213 vs. 219 issue. Is the intended item level of the heroic 5-man items suppose to be 219? Because they have been 219 since the second night of the patch for me but I was under the impression, they were suppose to be 213.

The 219 change was a specific intentional hotfix, which is why people had to dump their caches to see them, and it screwed up all the third-party databases.

I don't know if it's across all the gear, but the 2H weapons were intentionally buffed to be Ironsoul clones.

Moof · 08/11/09, 10:15 PM

On Eadric:

If you don't have a dispeller, the hammer can also be grounded with a grounding totem.

Rhaegal · 08/12/09, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dancing Wu Li Master

EDIT: Another way to put it: NB-10 felt easier with Ulduar-10 gear than Ulduar-10 did with Naxx-10 gear on release.

Seconded. We probably would have one-shot it if our OT hadn't DCd with Dreadmaw on the other side of the room during phase 2 on our first attempt. On our second attempt we did win, despite having a couple people who still weren't really sure what was going on with the Toxin/Bile debuff mechanics. One of our three healers had the Toxin go to duration, and it was a fairly sloppy kill overall, except Icehowl, which we all pretty much /yawned through. For reference, we're a 10-man only guild (except myself and one other who have pugged Ulduar25 through Hodir twice and got a drop or two), and just got Thorim hard and Yogg down for the first times this past week, with XT, Hodir, and IC hard modes farmed a bit. It was a fun fight, and had some fairly challenging spots with phase 2 tank damage, but as others have said, 3 healers make it go pretty smoothly. I'd also put it on par with XT and Iron Council hard modes on 10 man.

I have a question regarding Snobolds, though. I've read that they seem to stick on the targets they pop out on, which seemed true from what I saw in the fight, and our boomkin said they couldn't be rooted or cycloned, but do they respond to taunts? If so, do they just respond for the taunt duration then go back to their target, or stick to the person who taunted them?

Exemplar · 08/12/09, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

I have a question regarding Snobolds, though. I've read that they seem to stick on the targets they pop out on, which seemed true from what I saw in the fight, and our boomkin said they couldn't be rooted or cycloned, but do they respond to taunts? If so, do they just respond for the taunt duration then go back to their target, or stick to the person who taunted them?

The snobolds have their own threat list. It is possible for them to be on one target, yet have threat on another. When they've hit a fellow melee and I've DPSed them I have often pulled aggro and suffered damage from their attacks.

However, it is possible they only have melee attacks and are effectively rooted to the target they clasp. Same rules as normal roots would apply - if they cannot reach their real aggro target they'll hit the highest threat within range. Therefore snobold on ranged with only ranged hitting it would only DPS their victim. I do not know this is true, but it fits the current evidence I've personally witnessed.

footloop · 08/12/09, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

The snobolds have their own threat list. It is possible for them to be on one target, yet have threat on another. When they've hit a fellow melee and I've DPSed them I have often pulled aggro and suffered damage from their attacks.

However, it is possible they only have melee attacks and are effectively rooted to the target they clasp. Same rules as normal roots would apply - if they cannot reach their real aggro target they'll hit the highest threat within range. Therefore snobold on ranged with only ranged hitting it would only DPS their victim. I do not know this is true, but it fits the current evidence I've personally witnessed.

This is correct. They have a normal threat table and can be tanked as long as you're standing next to them, but once you move out of range they'll start hitting somebody they can reach (usually the person they're attached to).

Rhaegal · 08/12/09, 5:37 PM

On a related note, I just spoke to our mage who apparently did science to one of the Snobolds on Sunday. They can't be forcefully knocked around (Blast Wave) or disoriented (Dragon's Breath). I'm guessing that the fact that they can't be knocked back means they also can't be Death Gripped, which we did not try, but I'm pretty sure mobs are either vulnerable to forced movement or not, whether it's a knockback or a pull.

Allara · 08/12/09, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

I have a question regarding Snobolds, though. I've read that they seem to stick on the targets they pop out on, which seemed true from what I saw in the fight, and our boomkin said they couldn't be rooted or cycloned, but do they respond to taunts? If so, do they just respond for the taunt duration then go back to their target, or stick to the person who taunted them?

Our tanks mentioned that they seemed to be immune to taunts.

Braegan · 08/12/09, 8:02 PM

By my own observations last night, where we successfully downed both 10man encounters, I would have to say that the Snobolds have a threat table that is first dependent on actual aggro (threat) then dependent on proximity aggro. I.E. if you're within range and dealing damage you will build threat and effectively "tank" the snobold. But as soon as you're beyond melee range it switches to its nearest target, that being whomever it's sitting on.

Think of the golems in Ulduar with that charged fist buff. Get close enough and you get whacked around.

We found it much easier to have our ranged dps make a target macro and burn the little creeps down.

/tar snobold vassal

Side note, this was nowhere NEAR as difficult a raid instance to break into as Ulduar was. No comparison whatsoever even to 10-Uld hard modes, much easier..

Cranberry · 08/12/09, 10:09 PM

Two-shot both Beasts and Jaraxxus in a pug, disturbingly easy =/

On Jaraxxus, something that we couldn't figure out - is there something that causes the Infernal Volcanos to close? We had like six volcanos in our two attempts - one spawned only one infernal, the others spawned three each. Also, what causes Nether Power on Jaraxxus? We assumed it had to do with keeping him near a nether portal, but he was near one at one point and didn't seem to be gaining any stacks.

keseph · 08/12/09, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

The snobolds have their own threat list. It is possible for them to be on one target, yet have threat on another. When they've hit a fellow melee and I've DPSed them I have often pulled aggro and suffered damage from their attacks.

However, it is possible they only have melee attacks and are effectively rooted to the target they clasp. Same rules as normal roots would apply - if they cannot reach their real aggro target they'll hit the highest threat within range. Therefore snobold on ranged with only ranged hitting it would only DPS their victim. I do not know this is true, but it fits the current evidence I've personally witnessed.

They choose a random target to launch onto and are thereafter welded to that target's back (fitting the achievement name and meaning that melée can't dps their own snobold). It does follow the same aggro mechanics as any other rooted melee-only mob and will switch to other targets in range, except that a typical idiot who tries to run away from the mob will make it very difficult for melée to dps it. Supposedly they inflict a periodic silence but I haven't seen it first hand; however their actual melee damage (about 2k on dps plate in 25m) is pretty trivial given how little raid damage there is in P1.

Cranberry · 08/12/09, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by keseph

They choose a random target to launch onto and are thereafter welded to that target's back (fitting the achievement name and meaning that melée can't dps their own snobold). It does follow the same aggro mechanics as any other rooted melee-only mob and will switch to other targets in range, except that a typical idiot who tries to run away from the mob will make it very difficult for melée to dps it. Supposedly they inflict a periodic silence but I haven't seen it first hand; however their actual melee damage (about 2k on dps plate in 25m) is pretty trivial given how little raid damage there is in P1.

It's a 5-second interrupt, not a silence. They also stun for 2s every 30s.

Tunch · 08/13/09, 12:59 AM

On the contrary, melee can indeed attack their own snobold.

Arantes · 08/13/09, 2:40 AM

Originally Posted by keseph

They choose a random target to launch onto and are thereafter welded to that target's back (fitting the achievement name and meaning that melée can't dps their own snobold). It does follow the same aggro mechanics as any other rooted melee-only mob and will switch to other targets in range, except that a typical idiot who tries to run away from the mob will make it very difficult for melée to dps it. Supposedly they inflict a periodic silence but I haven't seen it first hand; however their actual melee damage (about 2k on dps plate in 25m) is pretty trivial given how little raid damage there is in P1.

I don't pretend to know whether melee can attack them or not but I know that as a caster I can dot them but I can't cast most spells at them.

In other words the person with a Kobold on their own back can attack that same Kobold as long as the spell or ability does not require them to be facing the target. If the spell or ability requires you to face the target you will get the typical error.

dustdog · 08/13/09, 2:55 AM

Melee can't attack them, as ret I can only seem to hit them with judgement. It doesn't seem like cosecrate and divine storm affect them when they're on my head either.

As an aside, the biggest problem with gormok when doing it in a pug is melee tunnel visioning and ignoring snobolds, standing in fires would be second haha.

Tunch · 08/13/09, 4:40 AM

Well I'm not sure what you guys are experiencing, but I've attacked my own snobold without a problem. For reference, I'm an undead rogue, might have been under effects of a deviate fish.

khel · 08/13/09, 4:46 AM

What is the most commonly used shorthand name for the new dungeon? TotC10/25? ToC10/25? CC10/25?

Grimarath · 08/13/09, 6:02 AM

Originally Posted by Cranberry

[..] On Jaraxxus, something that we couldn't figure out - is there something that causes the Infernal Volcanos to close? We had like six volcanos in our two attempts - one spawned only one infernal, the others spawned three each. Also, what causes Nether Power on Jaraxxus? We assumed it had to do with keeping him near a nether portal, but he was near one at one point and didn't seem to be gaining any stacks.

Note that I run a 10man strict guild, so I can only comment on the 10man version of the fight.

Nether Power is a five stack buff (magic) which is applied to Jaraxxus everytime a portal spawns. It's basicly 5x +20% magic damage done, and seemed to last for atleast as long as the portal was up (although we did not try moving the boss away from it). However, it is spellstealable and purgable. Having our mages do +100% magic damage dealt was a pretty solid way to deal with the adds quickly, and it obviously removes the chance of instagibs on Jaraxxus' side.

As for our volcanos, each and everyone spawned three infernals and then closed again. Could have been a bug on your side to only spawn one, and if not, we haven't figured out how to close it yet. Not that the Infernals were an issue with the previously stated hint, 80k hp and two mages in the raid.