Two-shot both Beasts and Jaraxxus in a pug, disturbingly easy =/
On Jaraxxus, something that we couldn't figure out - is there something that causes the Infernal Volcanos to close? We had like six volcanos in our two attempts - one spawned only one infernal, the others spawned three each. Also, what causes Nether Power on Jaraxxus? We assumed it had to do with keeping him near a nether portal, but he was near one at one point and didn't seem to be gaining any stacks.
Were the volcanoes that spawned only one infernal right on the wall?
On a related note, I just spoke to our mage who apparently did science to one of the Snobolds on Sunday. They can't be forcefully knocked around (Blast Wave) or disoriented (Dragon's Breath). I'm guessing that the fact that they can't be knocked back means they also can't be Death Gripped, which we did not try, but I'm pretty sure mobs are either vulnerable to forced movement or not, whether it's a knockback or a pull.
I wonder if they can be Iceblocked/bubbled onto the ground. Such a mechanic would greatly trivialize the snobold achievement and in fact even make it easier provided good rng or enough paladins. Once on the ground just tank them normally.
We found that the Spinning Spike from the Mistress of Pain (it's the thing where she targets a random raid member and throws it up in the air in a big spin) could crit. Normally it would hit for about 15k on cloth, but when it crit we had people just getting 1-shot by it.
It wasn't really a problem because since it appears to be a physical attack, it wouldn't one-shot mail or plate users but instead leave them at 3-4k health. It was still rather annoying to just randomly lose people to a mechanic that is unavoidable and it seems unintended that it can crit.
I wonder if they can be Iceblocked/bubbled onto the ground. Such a mechanic would greatly trivialize the snobold achievement and in fact even make it easier provided good rng or enough paladins. Once on the ground just tank them normally.
Bubble doesn't remove them, they stay on your back. But at least you can cast without interruption when bubbled.
We found that the Spinning Spike from the Mistress of Pain (it's the thing where she targets a random raid member and throws it up in the air in a big spin) could crit. Normally it would hit for about 15k on cloth, but when it crit we had people just getting 1-shot by it.
It wasn't really a problem because since it appears to be a physical attack, it wouldn't one-shot mail or plate users but instead leave them at 3-4k health. It was still rather annoying to just randomly lose people to a mechanic that is unavoidable and it seems unintended that it can crit.
Are we sure it's entirely random?
Our distribution over the 6 players that got hit by it, and how many times:
3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1
Now obviously it could randomly hit the same person 3 times and not distribute, but I wonder if there's some way to avoid getting it on cloth. With one exception it hit only healers/ranged, which were the only people who should be on her threat list - melee were after her on the first attempt but we mixed it up afterwards.
Can someone explain to me how the "tribute" run works? I thought I saw a blue post on it a while back, but I can't find it anymore. Just from the achievement titles alone, it just seems you have to not wipe a certain amount of times while clearing the instance. How many attempts are there? Is it exactly 50, so you have to one-shot everything?
It scales down from 50. You get increasingly better/more loot and achievements the less you wipe. I'll assume the loot differences match the achievements which are 50, 45 and 25 I think.
Were the volcanoes that spawned only one infernal right on the wall?
Yes they were, now that you mention it. Does anyone know if the volcanoes spawn within a certain distance of Jaraxxus? The one time we had that happen we were tanking him by the wall.
Concerning Lord Jaraxxus' "Incinerate Flesh" ability. We were able to heal it off with a priest (full Ulduar 10 normal/hard gear) and a druid healing (ulduar 25 normal mode gear). In a different group, two druids (full furious gear, some heroic gear) decided it was easier to just wild growth/rejuv/etc heal the aoe damage than both healing up the debuff. This is for the 10 man normal mode. Both methods led to a one shot kill.
Lord Jaraxxus seems to have a long cooldown on his "Fel Fireball" ability in the 10 man normal mode. Only one interrupter was necessary.
In a different group, two druids (full furious gear, some heroic gear) decided it was easier to just wild growth/rejuv/etc heal the aoe damage than both healing up the debuff. This is for the 10 man normal mode. Both methods led to a one shot kill.
I can't imagine that's a better way to do it. Incinerate Flesh requires 30k healing to remove on 10, 85k on 25. The total damage done by Burning Inferno is ~125k on 10, ~300k on 25, and that damage is done to people who are taking damage from other sources (i.e., the Mistress of Pain / Infernals / Felfire)
But you're forgetting the fact AoE heal spells have higher HPS than single target heal spells. You're also forgetting druids overheal a lot. Their HoTs are probably up on the entire raid, just not doing much.
Originally Posted by arison
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.
But you're forgetting the fact AoE heal spells have higher HPS than single target heal spells. You're also forgetting druids overheal a lot. Their HoTs are probably up on the entire raid, just not doing much.
It's more than four times the damage. Additionally, you could run into range-issues with AE-Healing. As a resto-shaman I remove the debuff in two casts (2,6 sec max). Healing the AE is really suboptimal. Last but not least, preventing damage is always superior to healing it.
EDIT: Nvm, checked with others and it seems that the 6 champions are randomized and don't have any "set" teams. Two healers in the 10 and three in the 25 seem to be the standard.
After talking to the NPC that starts the fight, there will be some dialogue followed by 7 NPCs "jumping" from the stands into the Coliseum. If you are Horde they will jump down from the Alliance side (under Jaina, Varian, etc.) and vice versa. So you should start the fight by standing on the your side so you don't get aggro right away and can mark them and such. For the group that I faced (mentioned above) we went with the strategy of controlling and killing the healers first then facerolling the other guys. Had our two tanks charge in to get some aggro (although it would seem that they don't have traditional aggro tables and can change targets suddenly) followed by some crowd control. Our Enhancement Shaman hexed the Warrior (this was broken soon after, possibly by one of the other NPCs) and then stayed on the Druid to interrupt his heal as best as he could. Warrior tank, Arms Warrior, Ret Pally, and DK (me) attacked the Holy Paladin while interrupting her heals. At one point (25% health for us but I'm assuming it's not a set number) she bubbled and the Arms Warrior (who was using his PVP spec for Mortal Strike) had to break it with Shattering Throw. Our Warlock chain feared the enemy DK(who became immune to it after a while) while our bear tank hit and taunted things to soak damage. Once the Holy Paladin was down we switched to the Tree and it was pretty much game over for them with all the healers down. Sidenote - the DK did use Death Grip on one of our DPS and the Shaman did use Bloodlust in some attempts. Unsure if the Tree can Battle Rez but he did not in our case.
The other group had better players but had a lot more trouble (we only needed 3 attempts... first wipe was unpreparedness and having them jump down on us, second wipe the bubble caught us off guard). I listened in to their vent and they seemed to have had a lot of trouble with the Rogue's DPS capability as well as inability to neutralize the enemy healers. Might've been due to their lack of interrupt capable classes. They downed them eventually but I haven't had a chance to ask for the strategy or anything unusual to watch out for.
Forgot to mention they had an aura that reduced the effectiveness of any AOE damage spells by 75%. Not sure if it changes or goes away after one or more of them dies, didn't have time to check.
We just downed the faction champions on 10 man after many wipes on 25. It appears that there can be many combination of faction champions. We had 6 NPCs on 10 man. In our case we had the Holy Pally, Holy Priest, Hunter, Warrior, Mage, Ret Pally I think. The fight was pretty trivial as we had many interupts. We found earth bind totems to be invaluable. Basically the range stayed in constant motion (much like arena). If you stood still, you died to the assist train. We managed a two shot on 10 man.
Now 25 man was a different story. 10 NPCs total with most of them having 2.4 million HP (10 man was 400k or so). Our best attempts came when we just stunlocked/chain interupted the healers. When the assist train goes for a clothie they had better move quickly. We also had a horrible combination for 25 man with Resto Shaman, Holy Pally, and Holy Priest. All of which where very hard to kill.
Definately more difficult on 25 man by a couple factors at this point...
We three shot 25 man tonight...and our guild is traditionally bad at / doesn't play PvP. The key for us was to control all three healers. Our opposing team was holy priest, holy pally, resto shaman, shadow priest, lock, hunter, mage, DK, warrior, rogue.
The majority of our dps focus fired the priest, with a DK on the pally and rogue on the shaman to control their heals. Mages alternated CC's on the shadow priest, I (prot warrior) locked down the warlock, our shadow priest feared the mage when possible, and had our hunters helping to kite / peel the DK/rogue/warrior melee combo...we basically ignored the hunter.
Felt more difficult than the earlier two bosses, but did not seem that hard. The fight was over once we got the healers down, but took four or five minutes to wind up. I'm hoping for a Major Domo type mechanic on heroic where the last add becomes overpowered.
Originally Posted by Falk
Seems like advocating Darwinism would be the best solution.
Originally Posted by Darkside
The achievement would be much easier if it wasn't as hard.
It should be noted that the champions pets have almost no health. The hunter pet in particular is quite squishy at around 200K and the warlocks felhunter is a bit sturdier at about 400K. Once the healers are down/controlled the warlock felhunter is a good target as it can make things quite difficult for your own healers.
When CC'ing the champions remember that diminishing returns apply so have people work in pars to CC one of them (eg, mage/warlock).
It took us a few attempts to get the fight down on 25man. The warlock will re-summon his fel hunter if you kill it. We found focusing on the Shaman first then the Druid made life very easy as one of our rogues could keep the Holy pally locked out almost indefinitely.
We had our bear tank occupying the rogue until we were ready to focus it down. Between taunt, roots, bash and cyclone he could keep the rogue locked down forever.
As others have said once 2 of the healers are down the fight is much simpler,
Took us 6 tries. Also got the the disc priest/holy pal/resto druid combo.
We charged in and fear bombed and burned the priest down as fast as possible. After the initial fear wore off, stuck some rogues on the paladin and banished/feared the druid. Tanks pulled the warrior/dk/rogue away as best they could. After the priest died, we burned the rogue and then the warrior down while still ccing the paladin. After the first 3 are down, the fight is basically over.
Don't let your tanks switch to pvp specs, fun for me but bad for raid
Various tricks: DKs can chains of ice various things (including pets) when they are chasing healers. Silence the warlock when he does hellfire. Prot warrior can stun lock/disarm/taunt the rogue for a very long time to stop the FoK. Banish works on the druid. Coordinate aoe Fear bombs at the start for a quick kill on a healer and to spread out the npcs.
Things i found: paladin and druid were not locked down as well as we thought they were. Warlock hellfire needs to be interrupted. Dispelling unstable affliction is very bad (which if you don't pvp you might not know). The shadow priest is a huge problem unless cc'd.
Maybe we had a good composition for the fight but frankly I barely noticed what was going on for the faction champions. The only real threat we found was when the warrior+dk+rogue went after a clothy which gibbed them fairly quickly. After we got a tank on the warrior and DK things eased up considerably. We burned the resto shaman down first (with heroism) then took out the Warrior and DK who seemed to be the really threatening ones. Even with the priest and paladin spamming heals when they werent being sheeped/feared it didnt seem difficult to whittle down their health.
We were running 3 tanks on this fight and I really helped. As a druid I could easily keep the warrior on me and still be able to every now and then taunt something else as well. Very very liberal use of taunt seems to make the fight a bunch easier. Taunting one add when it starts to run off until you hit immune then using your other abilities on it while taunting another was very effective.
At the end though the encounter did bug out and just didnt end. We killed the last champion and no loot appeared nor did any conversation with the npcs happen. The gate didnt even open in fact and we had to hearth out of the instance. We sent in a ticket and apparently they couldn't verify that we killed it. The instance did reset (after we got out of Ulduar) so I guess we'll just kill them again tonight.
Sort of off-topic: Can any hordie give me the exact text that Garrosh or Thrall yell once you defeat the faction champions? I'm trying to fix the NRT addon so it detects this fight properly instead of triggering a boss kill for every single NPC.
Sort of off-topic: Can any hordie give me the exact text that Garrosh or Thrall yell once you defeat the faction champions? I'm trying to fix the NRT addon so it detects this fight properly instead of triggering a boss kill for every single NPC.
Horde: Garrosh: "That was just a taste of what the future brings. FOR THE HORDE!"
Just want to add that early list of Aliance NPCs on WoWWiki and other guides listed wrong spec for Paladin and Shaman.
Baelnor Lightbearer is retribution paladin.
Shaamul is shaman healer.
List on wowwiki is changed in last 10 hours and now it's accurate.
Downed yesterday on third attempt in 25 man. It's pretty hectic fight at start but once you kill first few, it becomes walk in the park.
Hints:
Peel melee out of the group.
Group different crowd control in groups to avoid diminishing returns
Use protection warrior or enhancement shaman as main assist, offensive dispel is very important on focused target.
Paladins are very good here, NPCs will focus single target from time to time, Hand of protection makes them disperse their targets.
Spam mass dispel.
Move all the time.
08/13/09, 8:30 AM
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