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08/19/09, 3:32 PM
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#121
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Warrior
Cenarius
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Took us 6 tries. Also got the the disc priest/holy pal/resto druid combo.
We charged in and fear bombed and burned the priest down as fast as possible. After the initial fear wore off, stuck some rogues on the paladin and banished/feared the druid. Tanks pulled the warrior/dk/rogue away as best they could. After the priest died, we burned the rogue and then the warrior down while still ccing the paladin. After the first 3 are down, the fight is basically over.
Don't let your tanks switch to pvp specs, fun for me but bad for raid
Various tricks: DKs can chains of ice various things (including pets) when they are chasing healers. Silence the warlock when he does hellfire. Prot warrior can stun lock/disarm/taunt the rogue for a very long time to stop the FoK. Banish works on the druid. Coordinate aoe Fear bombs at the start for a quick kill on a healer and to spread out the npcs.
Ive found worldoflogs to be very useful for analyzing the fight
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Things i found: paladin and druid were not locked down as well as we thought they were. Warlock hellfire needs to be interrupted. Dispelling unstable affliction is very bad (which if you don't pvp you might not know). The shadow priest is a huge problem unless cc'd.
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08/19/09, 6:10 PM
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#122
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King Hippo
Night Elf Druid
Blackhand
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Maybe we had a good composition for the fight but frankly I barely noticed what was going on for the faction champions. The only real threat we found was when the warrior+dk+rogue went after a clothy which gibbed them fairly quickly. After we got a tank on the warrior and DK things eased up considerably. We burned the resto shaman down first (with heroism) then took out the Warrior and DK who seemed to be the really threatening ones. Even with the priest and paladin spamming heals when they werent being sheeped/feared it didnt seem difficult to whittle down their health.
We were running 3 tanks on this fight and I really helped. As a druid I could easily keep the warrior on me and still be able to every now and then taunt something else as well. Very very liberal use of taunt seems to make the fight a bunch easier. Taunting one add when it starts to run off until you hit immune then using your other abilities on it while taunting another was very effective.
At the end though the encounter did bug out and just didnt end. We killed the last champion and no loot appeared nor did any conversation with the npcs happen. The gate didnt even open in fact and we had to hearth out of the instance. We sent in a ticket and apparently they couldn't verify that we killed it. The instance did reset (after we got out of Ulduar) so I guess we'll just kill them again tonight.
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08/19/09, 8:01 PM
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#123
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Lightbringer (EU)
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Sort of off-topic: Can any hordie give me the exact text that Garrosh or Thrall yell once you defeat the faction champions? I'm trying to fix the NRT addon so it detects this fight properly instead of triggering a boss kill for every single NPC.
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08/19/09, 11:13 PM
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#124
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Don Flamenco
Tauren Druid
Steamwheedle Cartel
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Originally Posted by Gruturistic
Sort of off-topic: Can any hordie give me the exact text that Garrosh or Thrall yell once you defeat the faction champions? I'm trying to fix the NRT addon so it detects this fight properly instead of triggering a boss kill for every single NPC.
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Horde: Garrosh: "That was just a taste of what the future brings. FOR THE HORDE!"
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08/20/09, 1:47 AM
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#125
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Warrior
Xavius (EU)
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Just want to add that early list of Aliance NPCs on WoWWiki and other guides listed wrong spec for Paladin and Shaman.
Baelnor Lightbearer is retribution paladin.
Shaamul is shaman healer.
List on wowwiki is changed in last 10 hours and now it's accurate.
Downed yesterday on third attempt in 25 man. It's pretty hectic fight at start but once you kill first few, it becomes walk in the park.
Hints:
Peel melee out of the group.
Group different crowd control in groups to avoid diminishing returns
Use protection warrior or enhancement shaman as main assist, offensive dispel is very important on focused target.
Paladins are very good here, NPCs will focus single target from time to time, Hand of protection makes them disperse their targets.
Spam mass dispel.
Move all the time.
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08/20/09, 3:07 AM
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#126
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Von Kaiser
Goblin Shaman
Die Nachtwache (EU)
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Originally Posted by maddfez
We three shot 25 man tonight...and our guild is traditionally bad at / doesn't play PvP. The key for us was to control all three healers. Our opposing team was holy priest, holy pally, resto shaman, shadow priest, lock, hunter, mage, DK, warrior, rogue.
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We killed the exact same combo last night on 4th attempt.
- Death Knights chaining enemy melee is extremely potent. After our DK got the knack of it, he took the warrior out 90% of the time. Just like real arena.
- We opted for killing resto shaman, then priest, and leaving the paladin alive. It seems he'll mostly heal himself once he is damaged a bit and won't interfere with nuking others.
- Nuking the pet classes will not despawn their pets. They have only 400k, so it seems to be a good idea to kill them early, esp. that nasty felhunter.
- We had a lot of trouble with gibbed clothies. Particular one of our warlocks seemed to attract up to four of them more than once, he died quite early in every attempt.
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08/20/09, 3:55 AM
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#127
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Warrior
Alonsus (EU)
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Originally Posted by Ra1ahast
It took us a few attempts to get the fight down on 25man. The warlock will re-summon his fel hunter if you kill it. We found focusing on the Shaman first then the Druid made life very easy as one of our rogues could keep the Holy pally locked out almost indefinitely.
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We had the felhunter as our first kill target before the 3 healers. The warlock never re-summoned his pet.
We had the priest, pally, druid combo. I don't follow why people suggests running with 3 tanks, or not letting your tank use their dps/pvp offspecs. The mobs don't follow a traditional pve threat table. We did our 25man with only one tank (prot warrior for stuns), and one shotted. Instead of taunts, you could use stun, fear, chain of ice, hamstring, piercing howl etc, which is just as good for peeling off mobs. Dps can taunt too. Clothies also has teleports, frost nova/blink, shield, dispersion, etc.
I compared the log Calendro provided with ours. One thing I noticed is the much higher number of interrupts and dispels we did. Our rogue used a fan of knives/throw specialization spec, and did 292 interrupts in the 8:30 fight. (Calendro's is 11min with only 66 interrupts total). Also, we did 100 more dispels. The interrupt on throw specialization is getting removed in 3.2.2. It's clearly a bit overpowered.
Last edited by LittleHamster : 08/20/09 at 4:21 AM.
Reason: adding more info
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08/20/09, 5:30 AM
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#128
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Banned
Undead Priest
Cho'gall (EU)
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We decided to run 2 raid groups yesterday, filling the spots with rerolls or casual players of the guild.
The first raid took 4 attemps to get rid of the champions. Our first 3 attempts were on controlling the healer while dpsing the melee then the casters.
Then we switch the focus, zerging healers then melees then ranges. I think that this combat can be almost won by brute force.
As a side note we used a feral druid taunting the Arms warrior to kit him. Nature's grasp is very useful to keep the warrior almost useless. We also warned players when the warrior was targetting them, thus avoiding some gibs on clothies.
Very efficient defensive and offensive dispell is the key in this fight I think. More than crowd control.
Both worldoflogs (dps is quite weak because of something like 12 rerolls per raid).
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
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08/20/09, 6:56 AM
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#129
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Piston Honda
Human Priest
Lightbringer (EU)
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Even though it's a PvE encounter, it feels very much like a PvP one. As mentioned by a poster above, interrupting and dispelling is much more important than DPS or healing. It's a bit of a mindset change from other PvE fights.
We had Paladin/Holy priest/Tree druid with a mix of Melee DPS, a shadowpriest, a hunter and a warlock. I had pre-assigned teams of two players to control 1 target, but when they first jumped down, we got taken by surprise and basically the assignments turned into "CC what you can and dispel what you can".
So what we ended up doing was have a feral druid just rotate roots and cyclone on the rogue, completely taking it out of combat. One of our rogues controlled the holy paladin and our warlock banished the tree druid. Other than that there were some random fears and some hexes and sheeps, but it definately wasn't very organized. We used heroism once we had finally found the holy priest in the pack and burned it quick.
When that was done, the fight really was nothing more than a mopup that lasted a good 7 minutes. Since we have a good amount of players that arena a lot, it seemed to me that PvP skills translate very well to this fight as I don't think any one of us dropped below 90% health in the fight.
Also, our tanks reported that the mobs were in fact tauntable and that between using their taunts and regular abilities, they were quite able to keep mobs on them for extended periods of time.
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08/20/09, 8:32 AM
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#130
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Warrior
Outland (EU)
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Being an achievement hungry guild we went for Resilience will fix it. In our first couple of tries we had some problems with the melee-mobs assist training on our squishies, especially as the fight dragged out quite a bit. We ended up having a tank capable class on all melee mobs using snares and taunts to keep them away from more fragile raid members. I think most of us did it in DPS-gear and spec (at least I did).
As said above, kicks, cc and dispels are the keys to the fight.
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08/20/09, 9:08 AM
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#131
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Glass Joe
Dwarf Hunter
The Sha'tar (EU)
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Originally Posted by Lucinde
Also, our tanks reported that the mobs were in fact tauntable and that between using their taunts and regular abilities, they were quite able to keep mobs on them for extended periods of time.
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We also noticed there wasn't a traditional aggro table, but taunt was somewhat effective.
Certain other actions also seemed more likely to draw their attention than others. For example, they really hate getting dispelled. During one attempt, I staked out on the ground in smoke flares the radius of my mass dispel, told everyone to fight in it, and more or less spam-cast mass dispel on the entire fight (We had a good crowd control plan laid out for the warlock). This would draw the attention of 4-5 champions at a time, and even though I was overwhelmed shortly, a good percentage of the damage taken in the fight was on me.
To parley this into a strategy, rather than just an anecdote about how gib a discipline priest, we asked our prot Paladin to stay in tank gear and focus on offensive cleansing, taunts, and stuns in that order. This seemed a very effective way to not only control the mob buffs, but also to focus the incoming damage where it's most manageable.
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08/20/09, 9:25 AM
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#132
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Bald Bull
Dwarf Rogue
Scarlet Crusade
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Originally Posted by LittleHamster
Our rogue used a fan of knives/throw specialization spec, and did 292 interrupts in the 8:30 fight. (Calendro's is 11min with only 66 interrupts total). Also, we did 100 more dispels. The interrupt on throw specialization is getting removed in 3.2.2. It's clearly a bit overpowered.
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There's an error with the logs, your rogue didn't have that many interrupts. Because of the way FoK works, any interrupts are actually reported 4 times by the combat log system. He actually only had 73 interrupts.
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08/20/09, 10:32 AM
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#133
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Collateral Damage
Undead Priest
Whisperwind
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I was pretty disappointed with the design of this fight, mostly because we were able to basically use one of our 25 players to completely shut down one of their 10, and once you down 2-3 of them, the fight is basically already over because no one is at risk of dying and/or you've reduced their healing ability to the point where they can no longer stop you from killing your current assist target, and yet the fight drags on for nearly 5 minutes after this point.
The tree druid can be completely shut down by one warlock alternating banish/fear, and any other single healer or caster can be completely locked down by a protection warrior with gag order. Most of the dangerous melee can be shut down with a combination of fears/roots/snares or simple kiting by a priest with body and soul and the occasional hand of freedom. Two hunters and two mages working together swapping targets can shut down another 4. Taunt also seems to double as a pretty potent short duration CC. Dispelling Unstable Affliction isn't even dangerous as long as they're not already attacking you, because another priest/paladin can just dispel the silence and the damage can be healed back up. And since they have no trash buffs, their Bloodlust/Heroism should be gone within seconds (unless you have no priests).
Maybe I'm just expecting too much, but once we got our CC organized the fight was disappointingly easy, and the design of the fight "ending" with the first two kills and then just dragging on for 5 minutes (or whatever) after that just doesn't seem that fun.
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08/20/09, 10:34 AM
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#134
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Piston Honda
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I did the fight tuesday on both 10 and 25 man. While I found the 10 man version extremely fun, somewhat challenging (just based on how different it was), and actually requiring strategy; the 25 man version was nothing but a shit fest. It took no guild coordination at all, and was very undertuned. Just like the other two bosses, it was an easy, boring one shot. We had: Holy Priest, Shadow Priest, Warrior, DK, Enhance Shaman, Ret Pally (Who still heals...), Resto Druid, Rogue, Hunter, Warlock.
The only CC i believe we had was a polymorph on the Holy priest while we burned the resto druid, and from there we went Holy priest, Ret Pally, Enhance shaman, and then from there we went on to the DPS randomly. I do remember killing the Death Knight towards the end, which I feel should change next attempt as I was wrecked in the face by him after being Death Gripped to one end of the Coliseum out of range of our healers.
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08/20/09, 10:57 AM
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#135
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Von Kaiser
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We ran into Warlock, Priest, Ret Paladin, Rogue, Resto Shaman, Boomkin on 10 man and we found the following:
1. Rogues and Ret Paladins blow up clothies, rightfully so, so you have to CC them or be BoP/PS/etc. ready
2. Killing the Resto Shaman immediately was best due to the high HPS of their healing waves in short fights and to keep Hero off (killing grounding totems was key too).
3. As a holy Paladin, placing bacon on myself and being ready to use Bubble/Sac early was a key to getting their first 1-2 guys down early. I was constantly aving to BoP either our Resto Druid or our mage (IB always used early thanks to the rogue popping cloak of shadows early).
All in all it was really fun and pretty well tuned for a 10-man normal encounter (we 4 shot it).
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