Priest 8 piece faith bonus

fivehundred · 06/14/06, 4:12 PM

Apologies if this has already been discussed here before. I looked briefly around the forums and couldn't find a thread on it. If it has please be kind enough to direct me to the appropriate thread.

Each spell you cast can trigger an epiphany, increasing your mana regeneration by 24 for 30 sec.

Does anyone know if that's per tick or mp5? I'm trying to figure out what gear I'm going to go for in Naxx, at least initially. Right now the 3 piece trans bonus is a difficult one to give up. Any info you guys have on my original question or the proc rate would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

• Shalas · 06/14/06, 4:17 PM

24 mp5. If it doesn't stack, it's worse than the 3/8 trans bonus assuming a non-TF proc rate (although the items themselves may be better enough to make up the difference). If it stacks, the quality depends entirly on the proc rate. If it rolls...

Wilton · 06/14/06, 4:50 PM

http://thottbot.com/test?sp=28802

Thottbot shows a 5% proc rate as of now.

♦ Malorum · 06/14/06, 4:58 PM

5% proc rate for 24 mp/5 over 15% mana regen in combat? Screw that. Ill stick with 3 piece Trans thank you.

• Shalas · 06/14/06, 5:58 PM

Assuming no stacking, my quick math says that it's the equivalent of 15 mp5 during flash heal chaincasting. 3/8 trans is 15 mp5 while casting at 160 spirit. Heal2 looping gives 11 mp5 (104 spirit).

If it stacks in some magical non-tick wasting, non-rolling method that currently doesn't exist, it reduces the cost of each spell you cast by 7.2 mana -- 14.2 mp5 for Heal2 looping, 24 mp5 for flash heal spam. I have no idea how to model it if it does roll, but with flash heal spam you'd have a 65% chance of rolling it, so it could pretty easily get to fairly disgusting levels.

Lagomorph · 06/14/06, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by Michad

5% proc rate for 24 mp/5 over 15% mana regen in combat? Screw that. Ill stick with 3 piece Trans thank you.

3 peice trans regen at 400 spirit works out to 15 mana/tick, at 400 spirit (ignoring the 13 regen that occurs regardless of spirit) that's about 27.7 MP/5 (assuming 2.7s/tick).

Spirit = x/5
350 = 24.3
375 = 26
400 = 27.8
425 = 29.5
450 = 31.25
475 = 33
500 = 34.7

I expect to end up at about 400-425 spirit raid buffed in full Faith, self buffed in the CTprofiles I used to analyze things I was at about 375.

What this says to me is the designers expected preists to be at about 350 spirit without buffs, put the proc at a level that's competitive with that much spirit, and trusted that the additional int, stam, +heal etc... would end out making it an interesting choice.

Then you have to figure out if it will proc enough to stay up 100% of the time. I'm not that good with probability to handle the overlap, the chance that it is and isn't up etc... to find out a final uptime - I'm hoping someone else will spot that.

My guess is that at 5% it will end out up about 50% of the time, making it worth 12/5 regen - which IS inferior to 3 peice trans by about 10-15 mp/5.

The question then turns into: Are the stats worth the mp5 loss to you?

Sirloin · 06/14/06, 6:11 PM

The 8-piece Faith bonus should give Alliance priests Windfury Weapon for 30 seconds.

Kalince · 06/14/06, 6:31 PM

Originally Posted by Sirloin

The 8-piece Faith bonus should give Alliance priests Windfury Weapon for 30 seconds.

I think you meant Wandfury.

♦ Praetorian · 06/14/06, 6:59 PM

If you had to keep 3, and only 3, pieces of Transcendence, which pieces would they be?

Lagomorph · 06/14/06, 7:03 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

If you had to keep 3, and only 3, pieces of Transcendence, which pieces would they be?

Pants (Gain MP/5 - minor heal/stat loss)
Gloves and Bracers. (no loss of MP/5 on these peices, crit dovetails with 4 peice Faith)

Crimsonjade · 06/14/06, 7:09 PM

Pants most definately.

The Faith set has so much spirit on it that it should be quite easy to get 350 spr to make the 8/8 Faith set worthwhile. Maybe just a shot in the dark here, but maybe Blizzard does not like the fact that healers can chain cast heals almost indefinately now?

The peices with spirit and mana/5 are just amazing though.

♦ Praetorian · 06/14/06, 7:10 PM

Trans Pants+Gloves+Bracers:
37sta
54int
50spi
92heal
7mp5
1% crit

Faith Pants+Gloves+Bracers:
52sta
62int
65spi
146heal

---

So you gain 15sta, 8int, 15spi, 54heal, and you lose 7mp5, 1% crit, and you switch set bonuses. (Note that until you kill Kel'thuzad, you also have to give up the -10% healing threat bonus as well to keep 3 Trans.)

Crimsonjade · 06/14/06, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Trans Pants+Gloves+Bracers:
37sta
54int
50spi
92heal
7mp5
1% crit

Faith Pants+Gloves+Bracers:
52sta
62int
65spi
146heal

---

So you gain 15sta, 8int, 15spi, 54heal, and you lose 7mp5, 1% crit, and you switch set bonuses. (Note that until you kill Kel'thuzad, you also have to give up the -10% healing threat bonus as well to keep 3 Trans.)

Assuming 10 min fight and you can stay outside the FSR 50% of the time, the Trans is worth 3806 regen'ed mana and the Faith is worth 3733 regen'd mana. That also assumes you have meditation.

I guess you just have to decide whether +54 healing is worth that 73 mana regen'ed.

edit: the Trans set becomes better and better the more time you spend in the FSR in case you did not see that...

Lagomorph · 06/14/06, 7:24 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Trans Pants+Gloves+Bracers:
37sta
54int
50spi
92heal
7mp5
1% crit

Faith Pants+Gloves+Bracers:
52sta
62int
65spi
146heal

---

So you gain 15sta, 8int, 15spi, 54heal, and you lose 7mp5, 1% crit, and you switch set bonuses. (Note that until you kill Kel'thuzad, you also have to give up the -10% healing threat bonus as well to keep 3 Trans.)

The 10% less healing aggro set bonus isn't something that bothers me, and from the Math on trans - at 400 buffed spirit you're looking at an additional loss of about 30 Mp5.

The more realistic comparison is 15sta, 8 int, 54 heal vs. 37Mp5 and 1% crit.

That's not a determination I'll be able to make until I see Naxx in detail.

Lagomorph · 06/14/06, 7:27 PM

Assuming 10 min fight and you can stay outside the FSR 50% of the time, the Trans is worth 3806 regen'ed mana and the Faith is worth 3733 regen'd mana. That also assumes you have meditation.

I guess you just have to decide whether +54 healing is worth that 73 mana regen'ed.

edit: the Trans set becomes better and better the more time you spend in the FSR in case you did not see that...

How many casts/minute are you looking at to get to 50% in combat?
How are the casts spaced?
What procrate did you base that on?
How did you account for overlap?

Kalince · 06/14/06, 7:31 PM

I would think there would be a very good chance you have already killed Kel'Thuzad before 8 piece could even become a reality for you.

Crimsonjade · 06/14/06, 7:44 PM

Originally Posted by Lagomorph

Assuming 10 min fight and you can stay outside the FSR 50% of the time, the Trans is worth 3806 regen'ed mana and the Faith is worth 3733 regen'd mana. That also assumes you have meditation.

I guess you just have to decide whether +54 healing is worth that 73 mana regen'ed.

edit: the Trans set becomes better and better the more time you spend in the FSR in case you did not see that...

How many casts/minute are you looking at to get to 50% in combat?
How are the casts spaced?
What procrate did you base that on?
How did you account for overlap?

I was responding to the numbers that Gurg posted, that is it. All of the questions you posed are moot.

Lagomorph · 06/14/06, 8:01 PM

Originally Posted by Crimsonjade

Originally Posted by Lagomorph

Assuming 10 min fight and you can stay outside the FSR 50% of the time, the Trans is worth 3806 regen'ed mana and the Faith is worth 3733 regen'd mana. That also assumes you have meditation.

I guess you just have to decide whether +54 healing is worth that 73 mana regen'ed.

edit: the Trans set becomes better and better the more time you spend in the FSR in case you did not see that...

How many casts/minute are you looking at to get to 50% in combat?
How are the casts spaced?
What procrate did you base that on?
How did you account for overlap?

I was responding to the numbers that Gurg posted, that is it. All of the questions you posed are moot.

Ahh - I read it as you counting the additional regen from 3 peice trans in that calculation. (In which case, your numbers are off)

Incoherence · 06/14/06, 11:04 PM

The gloves actually got halfway decent after they changed them, so I'm thinking pants/bracers/belt might be a better choice. Trans belt and gloves are both not very good (although I see the point about 1% crit synergizing with 4 piece Faith), but it's sort of a lesser of two evils choice.

Also, to run the numbers a different way, suppose you have 348 spirit and 3/8 Transcendence. Your out of FSR regen is 100 mana/2 (thus why I chose 348 and not 350), and your in FSR regen is 30% of that, so 30 mana/2. 15 mana/2 of that comes from 3/8 Transcendence. 15 mana/2 = 37.5 mana/5.

Now suppose Epiphany is by some miracle up all the time. This is a fairly optimistic assumption, but we'll go with it, and when someone runs a simulation to figure out what percentage of the time it'll actually be up we can modify our numbers. What's the FSR breakpoint at which 8 piece Faith becomes better than 3 piece Transcendence? Well, since 3 piece Transcendence only works while you're in FSR, we get the following equation to solve for the FSR breakpoint:
(15% of your mana regen) * (FSR time) = 24 mana/5

So for our example with 348 spirit, the breakpoint is 24/37.5 = 64%. Here's a nice little table for some other values:

Spirit   FSR breakpoint
200	  101.59% (in other words, impossible)
250	  84.77%
300	  72.73%
350	  63.68%
400	  56.64%
450	  51.00%
500	  46.38%
550	  42.52%

Now, what this means is that even if they changed it from a proc to an equip effect, if you have 348 spirit and are in the FSR more than 64% of the time, 8 piece Faith will be worse than 3 piece Transcendence.

(Caveat: yes, I'm ignoring the 15ish spirit you pick up from the extra 3 pieces of Faith. Wanna fight about it?)

Zwink · 06/14/06, 11:50 PM

It's quite disappointing that Priests are more or less pigeon holed into 3 Transcendence. I'm only looking forward to Faith Helm, Shoulders, Chest, and Boots. While Faith Gloves are nice, I absolutely don't want to give up 3 Trans or Grasp of the Old God.

Here are 2 ctprofiles comparing:
3 Trans, 4 Faith, and Grasp of the Old God - http://ctprofiles.net/1430328
3 Trans, 5 Faith - http://ctprofiles.net/1649672

I like the Grasp of the Old God combination, but I'd still Faith gloves and ring available to get 6p on aggro sensitive fights.

Amera · 06/15/06, 5:22 AM

I personally really enjoy the 8 piece trans bonus on many fights; the renew is just so uber as a free top off heal and additional damage mitigation when applied to a tank with a normal renew, etc.

Looking over the Faith bonuses, I'm finding it hard to justify dropping that bonus even for the additional +heal and mp/5 depending upon how the encounters shape up.

Taeme · 06/15/06, 5:39 AM

I think it's a good bonus, but as a person who favours spirit I think the 3|8 trance bonus will be more effective for my priest.

I really can't complain. Faith is an extremely well designed set, pardoning the gloves which are almost as disappointing as Trance gloves. What is with priest glove itemization? Ugh!

Incoherence · 06/15/06, 5:50 AM

Originally Posted by Taeme

I think it's a good bonus, but as a person who favours spirit I think the 3|8 trance bonus will be more effective for my priest.

I really can't complain. Faith is an extremely well designed set, pardoning the gloves which are almost as disappointing as Trance gloves. What is with priest glove itemization? Ugh!

I thought they added 4 mana/5 or something to the gloves, raising them from "marginal upgrade from Prophecy, only took you idiots 22 ilvls to pull it off" to "decent upgrade from Prophecy, only took you idiots 22 ilvls and 2 tries to pull it off".

Taeme · 06/15/06, 5:57 AM

I've been hearing rumours of this but I haven't seen it. If that's so then faith gloves kick trance/messiah/dork wisdom right in the fucking teeth.

It also means I will need to loot a trance belt. Boo-hoo.

james · 06/15/06, 7:00 AM

Cheer up, they'll no doubt "improve" the tier 2 set bonuses to help many of us give them up :) To be fair to Blizzard, they do often react to community criticism so if the set bonuses are underwhelming for a given set, there's a fairly good chance that they'll revise them.

Grabbed myself a Trans belt finally last night in preparation anyway...