So I'm a 17/24/10 combat dagger rogue and I look down at my gear to notice Im now carrying +14 hit with another 5 from talents, this seems a bit overboard and Ive heard that 17 or so is a nicer number to hang around. I know that up until 24 every +hit is still helping but at somepoint AP has to outwieght this right? I could drop back down to ~17 and gain some AP doing it, seems worth it to me any input is appreciated. Im thinking put my cloak of firemaw back on (instead of Pussiant) and grab a DD vest to replace my BF and things should be nice again.

I'd suggest you download Chalons Combat-dagger spreadsheet. And no, hit is just as good regardless if you got 10 or 20

Hmm, that can't be true. Take these extreme cases as an example.
If you've only got 1% chance to hit and gain 1% more giving you 2% chance to hit, you just increased your DPS by 100%.
If you've got 99% chance to hit and gain 1% more giving you 100% chance to hit, you just increased your DPS by about 1,01%.
The higher your chance to hit is the worse every next percentage point becomes.

Or am I completely wrong here?

Wrong, there is a cap, as the OP said I believe it is 24 on level 64 mobs, probably a bit higher on 61+ mobs.

If you have 1% hit, and hit for 100, then each 100 swings you do 100 damage, 2% means you do 200, gaining 100 damage over that period.

99%->100% is 9900->10000 still a 100 damage gain in that period, so both worth the same.

It's true that there aren't diminishing returns on +hit (when you view it like that), but on the other hand, the marginal value of AP increases with +hit. So +hit is "just as good" with each additional point, but other stats might become better.

Just get the spreadsheet, this is the kind of thing it was made for.

+Hit is insanely powerful. With the gear in my profile, according to Chalon's Spreadsheet, Don Julio's Band is worth more than either Quick Strike Ring or the circle of Applied Force, Striker's Mark is worth more than the Gurubashi Dwarf Destroyer (even with relatively low AP and high Crit/Hit) and the Band of Accuria is worth more than any level of the Brood of Nozdormu rings, especially when I should happen to get the Master Dragonslayer's Ring.

The diminishing returns on +hit apply through specials. It takes around 8% hit to never miss a special against a 63 mob and the cap for non specials is 24.6%. If you're stacking hit to ensure your specials dont miss then aim for the 8 if you're stacking hit to put more weight into your white dps then you'll aim towards 24.6 so in a raid situation you're not actually going to hit a "capped amount of hit". Obviously crit / ap can be worth more depending on how much you're exchanging for it but atm top end gear is stacked very heavily in +hit itemization and less +crit but it's still well worth going for since the overall balance on those sorts of items is higher.

Is it really true that a mob's level increases your chance to miss by only .2% per level. I haven't done any tests, but I would wager that against targets of a higher level than your own, there is an additional penalty than the one incurred by defense/skill difference that happens against same-level targets.

how much?

The first 5% to hit are worth about as much as crits are worth or so depending on classes and other stuff (melee classes), the 6th one is worth maybe 80% of a crit and higher then 5 to hit is worth the exact % as your white damage percentage.

So higher then 5 it's always worse to crits and above then 6 always worse by up to a 2 to 1 ratio.

Notable exceptions to take into account is that TF proc is part white dmg part special, have to estimate a bit and other stuff like this.

That's the general rule of thumb.

If you're trying to regulary stab/slash lv63 raid bosses its the first 8% that counts the most, not 5%.

As far as I know melee only miss 5.6% of the time on lvl 63, which is logical to what I see in game. Range attack apparently need 8.6 for lvl 63, probably was done that way to counter the fact range attack doesn't have glancing blows.

I think hunters are the only class that gains 1% miss per level above. I think melee miss only increases from the inherent defence increase that the mob gets. So it would 6% hit to never miss, 5.6% if you want to be picky.

+ hit has some bonuses that can't be measured in straight up numbers. Some guilds use dps tanking during phase 1 of Nef. In that case, I would value +hit over +crit because I want my dps(in otherwords, my agro) to be consistent and reliable.

The base chance to miss against lvl 63 mobs is 5.6%, not 8.


Thordin, the same diminshing returns argument can apply to crit, ap and everything that increases your damage by a fixed amount. Your example is only showing that a player with very little dps gets more benefit from a stat than a player with very high dps. A better example to test whether or not hit has diminishing returns would be as follows...

Step 1) Create 2 scenarios with different hit chance but the same dps (achieved by varying crit rate).

Player with 2% to hit and 25% crit that hits for 100 every second has a dps of 52
Player with 50% to hit and 1% crit that hits for 100 every second has a dps of 52

Step 2) Add 1% hit to each case.

Player with 3% to hit and 25% crit that hits for 100 every second has a dps of 53
Player with 51% to hit and 1% crit that hits for 100 every second has a dps of 53

Step 3) Check dps differences for both cases.

As we can see from step 2, both players benefited the same from 1% hit. Regardless of their base hit chance they both receieved a dps increase of approximately 1.9%

I'm well aware of the fact that hit is capped at 24%, since he meantioned it himself, I didnt feel like I needed to cut it out in paper.