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Old 06/19/06, 3:50 AM   #16
Jaytan
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Troll Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by moz
Originally Posted by Zoid
It must be nice being a tank and having all your flasks and greater defense potions handed to you.
No, just no. If you only knew how expensive it actually was.
This argument is dumb, who cares who pays more for repair costs. Does it make you feel important that you pay more than someone else per raid?

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Old 06/19/06, 4:08 AM   #17
• moz
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This wasn't an argument, I was clarifying the fact that if you got the impression that tanks had their consumables handed to them (sans flasks for most things) for each fight you were sorely mistaken.

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Old 06/19/06, 9:15 AM   #18
diospadre
Hero of the Horde
 
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Undead Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Zoid
It must be nice being a tank and having all your flasks and greater defense potions handed to you. Every single class has to put their effort in outside of raiding. You're expected to have your needed consumables and all your gear enchanted correctly for the raid.
Ok I'll join a different guild since I don't have enchants or consumables and don't deserve to be in EJ.

Like I said before there is no reason to farm mobs in this game.

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Old 06/19/06, 9:42 AM   #19
• Bad Luck
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Originally Posted by diospadre
Ok I'll join a different guild since I don't have enchants or consumables and don't deserve to be in EJ.
<Snake Vendor>

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Old 06/19/06, 9:56 AM   #20
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Jaytan
Originally Posted by moz
Originally Posted by Zoid
It must be nice being a tank and having all your flasks and greater defense potions handed to you.
No, just no. If you only knew how expensive it actually was.
This argument is dumb, who cares who pays more for repair costs. Does it make you feel important that you pay more than someone else per raid?
Sometimes I'll go through a Mageblood and 3-4 Major Manas or GDS during a given wipe, and I know for a fact that my costs pale by comparison to our MTs' costs whenever we wipe. Take a look at Moz's or Tehax's buff lists before they tank anything important, and keep tabs on Stoneshield use during fights -- except for a Flask for Emps and Chimeraeok Chops, none of that is subsidized.

That said, basically, if you aren't a DPS class capable of farming efficiently, you should be an herbalist so you can supply your own consumables. I only manage to get by without herbalism and as a class that sucks at farming because I make a couple hundred gold a week crafting stuff like Lionheart Helm, Dark Iron stuff, Dreamscale Breastplates, etc.

I don't buy the argument that a priest needs epic DPS gear to farm effectively, because what the epic stuff tends to give you is a bit more longevity, which you don't need while farming. Grab blues like the ZG offensive rings, Crimson Felt Hat, etc. What Oracle and its ilk give you is the ability to continue to nuke for a sustained period of time -- not necessarily the abiltiy to kill faster. If you're farming with a couple of stacks of mage water, the difference really isn't that significant.

Edit: However, everything filters down eventually. Our protection tanks have DPS gear. Our druids have Boots of the Shadow Flame, Mantles of Wicked Revenge, and so forth. And I fully expect every active druid/priest to have a set of Genesis or Oracle by the time the Expansion comes out and they need to level to 70. Saying they don't get something first is hardly the same as saying they can never get it.

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Old 06/19/06, 10:41 AM   #21
• Snowy
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Mal'Ganis
Plate wearers (and the MT in particular) still ring up the highest repair bills by far - keep in mind the MT is the one who is taking the most hits, and also is likely dying the most. I think most guilds supply flasks due to the cost, but everything else is usually on their own.

Since the talent review, priests definitely do not need epic DPS gear to farm. All it does is speed up the process some. One little tip is to run Sm Strath with 3 people - when you're splitting money from orbs and the other drops, it adds up fast, and the fun factor is there watching a rogue tank the whole thing, for example. Personally I grind out either the satyrs in Azshara (demonic runes are a nice byproduct), or during light server time, Silithus. Of course I'm being somewhat hypocritical since I'm a shadow priest, but I did try out holy/disc for a short time to see how it was and I can't say I was majorly gimped. It was just a little slower.

As others alluded to though, herbalism is the true money winner. If you can get it + alch up on an alt, you can cut down a lot of your own costs. I leveled a shaman to 53 and that's been good enough to farm Un'Goro/Azshara. I can make my own Greater Arcane Elixirs, etc.. and mail mats for Mageblood/GDS/Flasks to our best alch. Sure, it's a little bit of a grind, but what isn't in this game?

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Old 06/19/06, 12:11 PM   #22
Elendril
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Ner'zhul
i haven't killed a mob outside a raid instance for months and i make zero money with my professions (tribal LW/engineering) and i have no problem keeping up with consumables and repair bills (and i even dropped 1k g on bijous to get ZG exalted not too long ago). granted, part of that is due to feign death, but there aren't really that many feignable fights anymore (that we ever wipe on, at least). to be fair, i skimp on mana potions these days, using only Combat Mana Pots rather than Majors since the farmers got banned and stacks went from 5g to 25g real quick, and occasionally have my mongoose pots handed to me by loving guildmates who understand my addiction, but i use solely ice-threaded arrows (and i would use thorium except for the fact that i never have enough inventory space to actually craft bullet and go to the quest dude to exchange them) and have taken to using mana oils on longer fights. so yeah - i can't really see how people really ever need to farm, at least regularly.

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Old 06/19/06, 1:46 PM   #23
Kalince
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Draenei Shaman
 
Mannoroth
If you have a decent amount of alts (running 4 35+ here) use up all their secondary profession as transmuters. Arcanite/Mooncloth/Refined Salt, you can usually just buy the reagents transmute and profit. A mooncloth per day (plus the purchase of cheap DE'able greens off the AH then selling the dust/essence) has kept me well above my reagent/repair costs.

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Old 06/19/06, 2:19 PM   #24
Felippe
King Hippo
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Pizzarino
It's hard for this to actually become a problem if you guild has responsible players.
There lies the problem. The fact is, with an open bidding system you will get this sort of thing. From priests grabbing Ebony Flame Gloves, to Hunters/Paladins taking Ashkandi.

I'm with the general opinion that it's silly to disenchant gear if there's somebody in the raid for whom it is an upgrade or sidegrade. For example Wristguards of Stability drop and none of the rogues want it, so it goes to a 27/0/24 Druid because he can use it.

Like Praetorian said, once the main classes get the gear then there's no reason not to let other classes take them.

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Old 06/19/06, 2:31 PM   #25
Rachel
Great Tiger
 
Troll Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Zoid
Dios, I created Zoltana (my warrior alt) just to farm to feed my priest. It wasn't until 1.10 and I could actually spec holy/disc and get a decent damage/healing hybrid build that I stopped needing to use my warrior alt.

How the fuck was I supposed to pay for my repairs, major mana/dreamless potions, essence of air/water for healing enchants and countless shards, etc. Farming on a Disc/Holy priest before 1.10 was an excercise in utter frustration. You'll notice I haven't been playing Zoltana much at all since 1.10 has hit. I've pretty much retired her since I can actually kill shit with my priest now.
Oddly enough, my mage alt pays for my warrior via herbalism. I regularly farm all my own potions for raiding (though this reminds me that I'm running low on a few things), and sell herbs I don't need as a source of income. I almost never have to pay for any enchanting mats besides librams, because it's easy to stockpile shards and GEEs if you still go to 5-man instances.

I've never had to go off farming mobs just to pay for repairs or consumables or enchants.

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Old 06/19/06, 5:09 PM   #26
• Zoid
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Elendril
i haven't killed a mob outside a raid instance for months
[...]
granted, part of that is due to feign death,
[...]
i skimp on mana potions these days, using only Combat Mana Pots rather than
[...]
occasionally have my mongoose pots handed to me by loving guildmates who understand my addiction
[...]
so yeah - i can't really see how people really ever need to farm, at least regularly.
You're a leech who doesn't properly prepare yourself for raiding and even point out the fact in your post.

If you really want to help the raid and not be lazy or selfish you would farm for Major Manas and the herbs or purchase the moongoose pots. Do you get the materials or by nature protection potions for Ahn'Qiraj? Do you have any Tubers or Night Dragon's Breath for emergencies?

My point is every class should spend the time they need to be prepared for raiding. Whether that cost is in potions, repairs, enchants, temporary enchants, etc. is all the same.

Rachel's post above me is how she uses her mage to get the materials her warrior needs. Everyone does their part, shouldn't you be doing yours?

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Old 06/19/06, 5:43 PM   #27
Homercles
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Tauren Warrior
 
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I'd like to see more examples of herbalism instanced. Have treant packs in DM West guard dreamfoil nodes, stash mountain silversage there, put 10 gromsblood nodes under Immol'thar, throw a tonne of dreamfoil/plaguebloom in Stratholme, give me a reason to run these instances (other than DM East) instead of trawling through Azshara/Felwood/Un'goro bored out of my mind looking for dreamfoil nodes.

Competing with farmers in EPL who have chest/herb/mining nodes memorised, getting extorted by people playing the AH, being bored out of my mind running around azshara looking for herb nodes, it's not my idea of fun and it certainly isn't a social experience. Give me a 5 or 10 man instanced way to get some good herbs that takes teamwork and makes the time involved unnoticable because the encounter is enjoyable.

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Old 06/19/06, 5:56 PM   #28
Whiteknight
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Proudmoore
^ you have my vote.

I have not seen a rich thorium vein on my server outside of Dire Maul in 6 months. Similarly riding around a zone for 3 hours and not seeing a single herb node is not my idea of a fun time.

Gather professions like herbalism and mining are really poorly scaled (read: not at all) for higher population servers. Granted we have a large contingent of farmers on our server and perhaps the situation is better after the bannings. Although many of the farmers play legitimately - just running around farming nodes without any hacks, so there'd be no reason to ban them...

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Old 06/19/06, 6:04 PM   #29
Elendril
KINDOFABIGDEAL
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Zoid
Originally Posted by Elendril
i haven't killed a mob outside a raid instance for months
[...]
granted, part of that is due to feign death,
[...]
i skimp on mana potions these days, using only Combat Mana Pots rather than
[...]
occasionally have my mongoose pots handed to me by loving guildmates who understand my addiction
[...]
so yeah - i can't really see how people really ever need to farm, at least regularly.
You're a leech who doesn't properly prepare yourself for raiding and even point out the fact in your post.

If you really want to help the raid and not be lazy or selfish you would farm for Major Manas and the herbs or purchase the moongoose pots. Do you get the materials or by nature protection potions for Ahn'Qiraj? Do you have any Tubers or Night Dragon's Breath for emergencies?

My point is every class should spend the time they need to be prepared for raiding. Whether that cost is in potions, repairs, enchants, temporary enchants, etc. is all the same.

Rachel's post above me is how she uses her mage to get the materials her warrior needs. Everyone does their part, shouldn't you be doing yours?
lol - i ALWAYS bring the necessary consumables to every raid. when i needed them, i used major mana potions - as a hunter, i can generally get by with combat potions/mana oils/downranking aimed shot with JOW/BOW mana regen. i bring mongoose pots when i'm not provided with them (and i certainly dont' ask for them), and i always have a stack of greater nature resist pots for every AQ raid (rather than the cheap regular ones half our raid seems to use :-P). i use ice-threaded or better arrows every raid, when i could easily skimp and use the far-less-expensive Jagged Arrows. I contribute 2 sets of Flask of the Titans materials and one Repair Bot to the guild bank every month. My point is that i can easily generate enough gold to sustain myself doing all of these things without any out-of-raid farming, as well as keep all of my gear in top-quality enchants whenever i get an upgrade, so i really don't see the terrible necessity for massive solo farming. perhaps i wasn't clear in my post, but i regularly do ZG and AQ20, which are reasonable money makers, and BWL is more or less Cashwing Lair at this point. So no - i'm not a leech, and i do more than my part for every raid i attend, and i sustain what seems to me a perfectly reasonable level of consumable use for every raid i go to.

do i use potions on every encounter? no, because i don't need to. drinking a mongoose pot, for instance, on any fight before Huhuran in AQ is just overkill, as is (generally) burning a mana potion, for me at least. our progression certainly hasn't been hindered because we don't use massive amounts of consumables all the time - when we need them, i use them, and when i'm using them, i'm providing them myself.

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Old 06/19/06, 6:25 PM   #30
Onox
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Draenor (EU)
I am a holy priest, speced for max gimpage even. I got a lvl 60 warrior alt, but he is protection. Then again, who likes to grind mobs. At least on my server, DraenorEU, my mining and herbalism combo has worked great for money. We dont have queues, but its definatly not a low pop server. Picking flowes and mining feels a lot less like work, and i am pretty sure i make more money then the people farming Tyr's Hand.

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