Most effective endgame tanking enchant? - Page 2

Foeresh · 06/20/06, 8:48 AM

Being better off is irrelevant to what the devs decided to change it to.

Speaking of irrelevant, this is enchants, not sheild slam - there is a post discussing shield slam linked above.

Now - any more thoughts on enchants, because I am intrigued now wondering if my statements are correct or if there is something I have not yet considered that may be why the +15 agi is taken handsdown by the first 2 replies.

dfinberg · 06/20/06, 9:16 AM

This is theorycraft to me since my warrior is still too low, but how does strength help with spikes? Adding some small amount to your block is not going to make a huge difference. The best way to deal with spikes is to prevent them, that dodge/parry looks even better then. Plus, as a warrior with lots of rage (say like a main tank) you pop crusader more with a slow weapon, since you are able to spam so many instants relative to normal swings (hm. Can anyone fill in which defensive stance instants can proc crusader?)

I'd say maybe it is the other way if at all, with a raid decked out in full tier 2 you might be having aggro issues if you are horde, and your healers can deal with the bursts, so you take crusader to generate some extra threat.

Anglakel · 06/20/06, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Foeresh

*Points to quote of patch notes 5 posts up*

Are you really THAT lazy like that?

Just dl'd the patch
Shield Slam: This ability has recieved a redesign. It now costs 20 rage to use and the damage it does is modified by your shield block value. However, the base damage has been reduced. It generates more threat per rage and more damage per rage than it did previously.

subscience · 06/20/06, 10:48 AM

I prefer Lifesteal for my Eskhandar's (high threat generation) and +15 Agi for a general tanking weapon and mitigation (currently Bloodlord's Defender for me).

Vomit · 06/20/06, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by dfinberg

This is theorycraft to me since my warrior is still too low, but how does strength help with spikes? Adding some small amount to your block is not going to make a huge difference. The best way to deal with spikes is to prevent them, that dodge/parry looks even better then. Plus, as a warrior with lots of rage (say like a main tank) you pop crusader more with a slow weapon, since you are able to spam so many instants relative to normal swings (hm. Can anyone fill in which defensive stance instants can proc crusader?)

I'd say maybe it is the other way if at all, with a raid decked out in full tier 2 you might be having aggro issues if you are horde, and your healers can deal with the bursts, so you take crusader to generate some extra threat.

Crusader is based on a "procc per minute" which means the speed of the weapon your using makes no difference, neither does the ammount of instant attacks you use.

• Wodin · 06/20/06, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Vomit

Crusader is based on a "procc per minute" which means the speed of the weapon your using makes no difference, neither does the ammount of instant attacks you use.

Errr...

PPM is calculated internally as a percentage chance based on the speed of the weapon, and that percentage chance is then applied to any instant attacks made with the crusader-enchanted weapon. So as your weapon speed slows down, the percentage chance that a given attack will trigger the enchant rises, and by extension the chance that a special ability will trigger it.

Kytrarewn · 06/20/06, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Vomit

Crusader is based on a "procc per minute" which means the speed of the weapon your using makes no difference, neither does the ammount of instant attacks you use.

Actually, both affect the number of crusader procs you get, in tandem.

Crusader is set at "1PPM", which means that a 2.0 speed weapon will have a 3.3_% chance of proccing Crusader each attack.

A 2.6 speed weapon (Spineshatter) will have a 4.3_% chance of proccing crusader each attack.

Now, assuming you use all your instant attacks, you'll get the same chance of proccing Crusader per hit, but more hits per minute.
Assuming unlimited rage:

Revenge: +12 hits per minute
Overpower: +12 hits per minute (outside factor's besides rage on these two)
MS or BT: +10 hits per minute
Whirlwind (one target): +6 hits per minute.

Now, obviously you won't have enough rage for all of those, but let's assume you get an overpower opportunity every 8 seconds, and you MS every time it's up:
7.5 Overpowers in the minute-long period, and 10MSes.

17.5 + "Standard Melee Attacks" is the number of hits you'll get in a given minute:
With Spineshatter: 40.5 attacks in the minute, with a 4.3% chance of a proc each hit. 1.7 procs per minute.

With Quel: 30 standard melee attacks, plus 17.5 from the instant attacks.

47.5 total attacks in the minute, with a 3.3% chance of proccing with each attack. 1.56 procs per minute.

The slower weapon gets more procs because you have the same number of instant attacks, but they account for a larger portion of the "estimated hits per proc" on the slower Spineshatter.

Foeresh · 06/20/06, 2:39 PM

Just dl'd the patch
Shield Slam: This ability has recieved a redesign. It now costs 20 rage to use and the damage it does is modified by your shield block value. However, the base damage has been reduced. It generates more threat per rage and more damage per rage than it did previously.

I still have yet to finish DL'ing the patch due to still being "behind a firewall" even though all 4 routers are now set up for port forwarded and a static IP unless Im missing one somewhere... stupid Blizz... Anyway that does make a little more sense in regards to tanking.

Actually, both affect the number of crusader procs you get, in tandem.

Crusader is set at "1PPM", which means that a 2.0 speed weapon will have a 3.3_% chance of proccing Crusader each attack.

A 2.6 speed weapon (Spineshatter) will have a 4.3_% chance of proccing crusader each attack.

Now, assuming you use all your instant attacks, you'll get the same chance of proccing Crusader per hit, but more hits per minute.
Assuming unlimited rage:

Revenge: +12 hits per minute
Overpower: +12 hits per minute (outside factor's besides rage on these two)
MS or BT: +10 hits per minute
Whirlwind (one target): +6 hits per minute.

Now, obviously you won't have enough rage for all of those, but let's assume you get an overpower opportunity every 8 seconds, and you MS every time it's up:
7.5 Overpowers in the minute-long period, and 10MSes.

17.5 + "Standard Melee Attacks" is the number of hits you'll get in a given minute:
With Spineshatter: 40.5 attacks in the minute, with a 4.3% chance of a proc each hit. 1.7 procs per minute.

With Quel: 30 standard melee attacks, plus 17.5 from the instant attacks.

47.5 total attacks in the minute, with a 3.3% chance of proccing with each attack. 1.56 procs per minute.

The slower weapon gets more procs because you have the same number of instant attacks, but they account for a larger portion of the "estimated hits per proc" on the slower Spineshatter.

Either way the overall difference is negligible in terms of PPM, and the additional threat available from HS spam in an unlimited rage case from a faster weapon would make up for the .15 procs a minute lost.

As far as the rest goes Ive had a nap now and Im thinking a little clearer and I will admit, I put crusader on both of my weapons for the widespread belief that between it and lifestealing they are the 2 enchants which cause the most aggro. Upon thought from being awake tho I realize that strength is to blocking what spirit is to regen, ya it helps a little but not really enough to make a difference. The extra AP is nice, but once again kinda meh and I havent ever noticed a big jump in damage from it so looking back Im gonna go ahead and say +15 agi as well. Time to farm some mats for a new enchant :-O

Now back to waiting for Filefront's hour long free download wait since it is the only mirror, and Blizz's DL'er is horrible. What a time to lose your bank card. </3 Patch day

squiffy · 06/20/06, 11:08 PM

Related to this, given that +threat is not available to me (350g enchanting fee, never mind the mats) what would be, in your considered opinion, the best glove enchant? +3 def? +15 agi?

Rane · 06/21/06, 2:30 AM

It's either 15 Agility of +threat nowadays. I don't think +3 Def is worth it unless you're really, really low on +def total. Horde overall is prolly better off getting +threat though. I have it, as a casual off-tank, and it works for me :) I saved and got 15 agi for my Gauntlets of Annihilation instead.

And holy crap, 350g fee and you bring mats? Only one guild on the server who succesfully do AQ40 or something? We hate our server but we still do our AQ enchants for free + byom to anyone afaik.

squiffy · 06/21/06, 2:48 AM

Heh, no we got a fair few guilds who do AQ40, but there's only been 2 drops of the enchant on the horde side and they colluded to set the prices. We're a big server too, can get over 1K queues in the school breaks.

RNG for the lose, it took a year for LionHeart helm plan to drop Horde side and when it did it was 200g for the "click" and you supply the mats. The guild who found that made an awful lot of money.