I imagine the idea of mods like this has been discussed here before, but a thread on the Raid and Dungeon forums left me wondering.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...p=1#post568968

Is there any truth to the bolded text? I've been raiding for basically as long as I've played this game. I've "been there done that" with regards to every raid zone in the game. Yet, I've never once so much as considered using this mod. Nor am I aware of any other top tier raiding guild actually making use of such a mod.

So the question I put forth is: Does your raid guild actually use this mod? (or something similiar)

requirement? no, not yet (if ever)

however it is really convenient and really well made -- it's primary use in EJ is allowing players who are being introduced to new fights to watch their aggro accordingly, so they don't waste time feigning/wanding/feinting etc while they could be doing much more damage

I've heard about this mod back in the huge thread about Warrior aggro generation, and we've never used it. If it's really that useful then :/

But yea, I'm pretty sure it's nowhere near a requirement for high end achievements.

No one uses it to my knowledge and if i found out anyone in my guild was using it id give them a swift kick to the balls

We've started using it a bit, but it's really hardly necessary. As a raid leader, I see its primary value as a macro-level tool in improving DPS, rather than a micro-level helping hand on particular boss fights. The people who pull aggro and die from time to time already know their limits and stay near them -- this mod doesn't really change much in that sense. But there are many people out there who are too hesitant, be it out of fear of pulling aggro or whatever, and they're wasting a LOT of potential DPS as a result. That's who I see this mod helping the most, and it's useful in that regard. It's a bit eye-opening for the guy who's just plugging along as per usual, worried about aggro, to realize "Oh shit, I have 25k threat but the tank has 50k, why the hell am I so worried about aggro?"

It's also very interesting to compare tanks' threat generation in terms of weapons, specs, and tanking strategies.

I initially stayed away from this mod, as te early iterations couldn't take into account everything that would be needed to make a practical raiding tool. But while I doubt it would be as overwhelming as OP suggests, a functional threat meter would be interesting to play with.

How advanced is it at this point?
Also, is it still getting updated freqently? I don't want to try to get 40 people to install something unless it's mostly settled down.

We have been using this for a while, and its a great mod. Its been well tuned for all of BWL at least as far as I have seen. It's primary help is on aggro sensitive fights like Vael, where you can see exactly who is next on the threat list. And raid leaders can yell at people who are too high.

The best use of it is as teaching tool in my mind. Before we started using the mod, it was unclear to a lot of people exactly how threat really worked. On a fight like the Broodlord/Firemaw it's not necessary, but it make the mechanics of the fight really obvious. The exact threat reduction of a knockback/wing buffet are immediately obvious.

As a DPS class, it really helps me put out as much damage as possible, avoid wasting energy on feints, and time my vanishes to be optimal (i.e. as late as possible).

Everybody needs to be using it, or it doesn't work. It's not like damage meter. Some moves like Sunder can't be tracked exterally, so without a chat channel to sync, it can't get a complete picture.

More over, why the hostility to this mod? Tools are tools, and this one is a great way to learn the mechanics of the game.

I think in all honesty it helps the most at increasing DPS, not preventing people from pulling aggro... I can count the number of times people pulled aggro in BWL in our raid on probably my 2 hands, but the number of people who are cautious and paranoid about pulling aggro outnumber that by far. It would increase efficiency with a domino effect -- bosses die faster, less healing required, healers can toss in some dps, boss dies even faster.

The only issue I had back when I used it was it did make the game a little laggy for me. Maybe that's better now.

You should take everything you read on the r&d forums with a wheelbarrow of salt.

The wow forums are so silly. They moderate topics with caps but people can post blatantly incorrect information or present wild speculation as fact and that is acceptable. Before long the factual content is surpassed by nonsense.

In the end the community forums should above all else be a place for interested parties to learn about the game but the misinformation is so thick it is impossible for a newbie to pick the real from the fake.

Is it even possible to pull aggro as a Rogue on Chromaggus, time-lapse or not?

The one "long sustained fight" that I can think of on which it's possible to pull aggro based on purely "orvercoming the 'threat cap'" is Flamegor, (or possibly Ebonroc, but the mob should be taunted at all times).

A large portion of our guild uses this mod. I held out for a while but then I decided to give it a shot. It really doesn't help me much as a hunter, but it does give me a much better idea about where people stand on aggro. If there are 15 classes with no aggro reduction ahead of me, it might make me forget about using FD but that's all.

We only started using it when we got to Vael and several people couldn't control their aggro. It has been useful to learn how threat looks on Vael, Broodlord, and the drakes but I would hardly say it's required for raiding.

How the hell do you pull aggro on a TL Chromag? Unless I'm misunderstanding things, the roges should be getting a full aggro wipe every 5-6 TLs, since there's no reason for them not to eat the TL.

We had people resisting TL last night. Enough to stay on the agro list instead of being wiped from TL's.

Time Lapse should still wipe aggro after 5-6 even if resisted. At least that's how it worked in 1.9/1.10, we didn't get a TL Chromy last night, so maybe it was changed.

We actually remind people to click off GOTW on TL.

About 15 of us used to use KTM. It definately did help a bunch of people up their DPS levels after we saw the difference between tank and DPS aggro levels.

Unfortunately, our server is already laggy and spastic enough without this mod. With it, people with slower computers (whether or not they are actually using the mod) got dragged around. This was becoming increasingly apparant to us in the Supression Room. It affects all users, those with and without the mod, because KLHTM hijacks the CTRA channel for its broadcasts. Anyone in the CTRA channel will be recieving constant updates that require CPU time to compute. "Is this a CTRA message?" "Is this part of this mod?", etc.

Have 10 people running KTM in a CTRA channel, and have one person read the raw data from that channel (/join it like a normal channel). KTM pushes out a ton of data.

Definitely not required, we have plenty of tanks who don't install it because they're still playing on 286's with 28k dial-up wireless modems and this mod brings their connection to a screeching halt.

All it does is help dps push the envelope and maybe helps a bit on Vael when you're first learning it (by now we have a good sense of who's tanking next, did it entirely without it). I used to be a lot more cautious with my feinting, this caused me to open up a bit more.

It's a time-saving add-in not an I-WIN button.

We are started using it, I kinda hated it at first since somehow I knew people would not magically start to understand how fights work.

You still pull aggro on firemaw when the tanks eat enough buffets. Before it was kinda hard to know exactly when it would happen now we have a graphic representation of what's happening and we can say things like "Hmm he fucked up there, start to be carefull and next one be ready to move in ".

On onyxia due to how bugged phase 3 start seem to be, the meter seem less usefull. It work well for p1 though.

It work pretty well on TL chromagus initially, but it seem to not take into account the aggro wipes that seem to occur. (Btw what's the deal with that? Is this a normal behavior? A bug? A different TL that wipe aggro?). So once the MT lose aggro on TL due to whatever, the meter start to be borked and it's very difficult to look at it to have an idea of what is going on.

It help OT know where they are though so I guess it's usefull for that, knowing if they are next or who they are above off, etc.

As far as "removing this mod" I have no idea how they could do that without changing the aggro system from the ground up to say, use hidden random range for hate instead of fixed value or something. As far as I know the hate values are calculate in a vacuum then plugged in the channel as you do hability, checking for stuff like which stance you are in, what talent you have like defiance, etc, and calculating the estimated correct value.

I don't know how this is possible if your tank is awake and your rogue vanishes at the proper point, unless you went in before the first 2 breaths and pulled early.

The MT has such a huge threat advantage on chrom, and tons of rage.

I've pulled aggro once on TL chrom, and it was right after a tank transition where I decided to be stupid. If I am not mistaken, time lapse is a 50% aggro reduction? That's what I've read but I never really found a consistent source for the mechanics of timelapse.

So if you had say 1.9x the threat of the OT, got yours halved by TL, and went in before the OT could properly position and build threat for 20-30 secs (which is what I did), I guess that would account for it.

Unless a player has access to a personal WoW tutor who can watch over them and point out ways to improve, I would suggest that is mod helps players do just that. A graphic dynamic respresentation of how threat works is a heck of a lot more instructive than reading formula's in a forum.

Removing this mod would be surprisingly simple: remove all abilties for mods to talk to chat channels automatically. IE, make sending to chat require a hardware event of its own.

Of course, that would also break quite a few other mods.

That would break a ton of mods yeah. Shared DM meters, ctraid, this one, calendar?, etc, etc. Maybe it would be a good thing,