This is from our patchwerk kill yesterday. Everyone was more or less regular buffed. Neither of the mages had flasks and maybe 1 of the warlocks had one. Everyone used all the regular buffs: Oils, Mageblood, Elixirs, Mongoose, ext. Fright's fury with GM swords and Karisma is MS with Ashkandi. Vozz is 28/23 frost and Bellatrikz has Winter's Chill. Warlocks are mostly SM/Ruin. All the hunters, except Darksade are Marksman (either 5/31/15 or 31/20). The fight lasted ~6:45. Danabis, Rzza, and Orlik are all combat daggers. Yazour is swords and Taktikz is fists with the rank 14 weapons.
This was the first time that we slacked on consumables and it shows. Mainly the Mages not dominating the meter. Normally we have around 4 or 5 mages. Warlocks are definately a real disappointment on this fight.
Today's PW kill went much smoother than last week's although we seem to be sqeaking by with much more evenly distributed DPS than a lot of the raids i'm seeing in this thread:
1. Combat Daggers - death's sting, harbringer of doom, abyssal leather leggings of striking :S
2. DW fury warrior - main-handing Crul and off-handing some blue sword from SM
3. Fire mage
4. Human Combat swords, TF
5. Human (used to be combat swords, not sure now) - Servo-arm + Iblis
Depressing turn out from hunter's compared to most hunters in this thread, with no-one even breaking 400 dps. We had only one DS proccer though, and no one using Ashjre'thul with 9s rots. Pretty sure I can improve my timing enough to break 400 though (using a huhuran's), screwed up my shots several times.
Alliance raid, and mana was absolutely not a problem for the hunters at least - Mageblood + Lesser Mana Oil + Greater Mana Pots + Divine Spirit + BoW + JoW == never dropping below 50% mana.
actually, DPS numbers might be slightly higher - DamageMeters claims the fight was 6:43, but RDX claims 6:37 ... odd.
No useful meters for Thaddius yet, polarity looks like it's going to provide wonderful opportunities for our raid lead to scream at us :)
Zwink, I don't know why you are saying mages are a dissapointment on that screenshot. Unless you only brought 2 mages to the raid, you're warlocks outdamaged the majority of your mage force - and that simply shouldn't be happening after 1.11 . I'd go question the other mages first before the warlocks... :)
Zwink, I don't know why you are saying mages are a dissapointment on that screenshot. Unless you only brought 2 mages to the raid, you're warlocks outdamaged the majority of your mage force - and that simply shouldn't be happening after 1.11 . I'd go question the other mages first before the warlocks... :)
There's only two mages. Have to make due with what you have. There's no more dps than those listed there in the screenshot. Those not listed are a dps warrior that died early on, the mt, and the hateful strike tank (yes 1 tank). What I meant about my comment about mages was that without flasks their dps decreases quite a bit. On previous kills mages had been much higher, due to flasking.
TBH, I'm glad to see rogues moving ahead of mages in this fight if the mages aren't flasked. They just need to put a rogue equivalent flask in the game now, so that when you go all out, that balance is retained.
Your hunter DPs is obviously going to be much higher than an equivalent Horde damage meter because of JoW - do alliance mages often tie level with hunters?
TBH, I'm glad to see rogues moving ahead of mages in this fight if the mages aren't flasked. They just need to put a rogue equivalent flask in the game now, so that when you go all out, that balance is retained.
Your hunter DPs is obviously going to be much higher than an equivalent Horde damage meter because of JoW - do alliance mages often tie level with hunters?
Actually JoW is pretty much a non-issue in this fight if a hunter is chain-drinking major mana potions and demonic runes, so he should never run out of mana. Give him a Grace of Air totem and he should in fact do more damage than his alliance counterpart.
If you aren't a goblin, why not?
If you are a goblin you rule
TBH, I'm glad to see rogues moving ahead of mages in this fight if the mages aren't flasked. They just need to put a rogue equivalent flask in the game now, so that when you go all out, that balance is retained.
Your hunter DPs is obviously going to be much higher than an equivalent Horde damage meter because of JoW - do alliance mages often tie level with hunters?
yes i'd say mages are on par with hunters as long as they're not flasked.
as for JoW, on today's kill of patchwerk i was at 1000-1500 mana when he died, with a mageblood and 2 lesser mana oils on, but without potting or runeing. i think if judgement of wisdom wasn't up the whole time it be fairly easy to keep my mana up with potions.
the thing i'm interested in is seeing all of the mana regen on cryptstalker in action. mp/5 is relatively a new stat for hunters and i think we're all going to see it as a very nice boost to complement mp/5 from consumables.
I list this in some detail to point out a couple of things. I haven't the time now to rescan, but I don't see too many meters w/ individuals breaking above 600. Seem to recall a mage w/ just over 700, though, but as been said if he was creditted with rolling ignites, it's not entirely valid, correct?
The fight is long enough that generally ignite rolls don't skew the DMs much because we're all stealing each others' ignites. It more or less balances out in the end.
Papa, considering the cost of flasking mages, would you still say mages are the best single target dps when not flasked?
I had a couple questions about rolling ignites as well. Is there any sort of priority in the ignite stack? Can higher damage fire crits overwrite older ones, or is it basically first five crits?
Papa, considering the cost of flasking mages, would you still say mages are the best single target dps when not flasked?
I had a couple questions about rolling ignites as well. Is there any sort of priority in the ignite stack? Can higher damage fire crits overwrite older ones, or is it basically first five crits?
Papa has pretty gimp gear, half of which is probably mc quality, so maybe that's the reason he flasks for just about every fight, and yes I think it's many people's opinion in my guild that fire mages are the best single target DPS when the mob has high AC (like patchwerk). As for the ignite question, it *seems* like older ignites are overwritten by new ignite damage, but to be honest I have never really paid too much attention to it.
Papa, considering the cost of flasking mages, would you still say mages are the best single target dps when not flasked?
I had a couple questions about rolling ignites as well. Is there any sort of priority in the ignite stack? Can higher damage fire crits overwrite older ones, or is it basically first five crits?
Papa has pretty gimp gear, half of which is probably mc quality, so maybe that's the reason he flasks for just about every fight, and yes I think it's many people's opinion in my guild that fire mages are the best single target DPS when the mob has high AC (like patchwerk). As for the ignite question, it *seems* like older ignites are overwritten by new ignite damage, but to be honest I have never really paid too much attention to it.
Christ. If that's "gimp" gear I'd hate to see mages in full ilvl 80+ gear with the C'thun drops and Wraith Blade.
Papa, considering the cost of flasking mages, would you still say mages are the best single target dps when not flasked?
I had a couple questions about rolling ignites as well. Is there any sort of priority in the ignite stack? Can higher damage fire crits overwrite older ones, or is it basically first five crits?
Papa has pretty gimp gear, half of which is probably mc quality, so maybe that's the reason he flasks for just about every fight, and yes I think it's many people's opinion in my guild that fire mages are the best single target DPS when the mob has high AC (like patchwerk). As for the ignite question, it *seems* like older ignites are overwritten by new ignite damage, but to be honest I have never really paid too much attention to it.
Dude, my gear, dps wise, is just as good as yours, hell I beat you on DM just about every fight, every night, without flasks. You just have ALOT more hp/mana than me. Regarding ignite, it seems that the ignite takes the highest damage crit and uses that for the stack. I'm not 100% sure though, but I think I've seen 5 stack ignites do more damage than the previous tick. Example, when I had an ignite tick for 3900, 3900, 4500, 4500, 4500.
Hehe well, actually, Gauss has a bit of an edge even on dps.
Yes 4 firemages on a raid and ignite is rolling pretty much at every time. Some communication, 4x combustion and rolling begins. And also, while waiting on gems/pots to come up, use rank 1 scorch ffs :). Fully buffed, im hitting around 500 with it (5/5 scorch&coe). Uses 50 mana per cast. Mage armor+arcane meditation, full buffs and some mana regen gear and you're ticking it back faster than you're using your mana :o
Ok, but without the flasks, how do you do compared to the rest of the raid?
About the ignite, wouldn't this suggest that setting up 5 man ignite teams is favorable?
It's really hard to say, it depends on the situation. On trash clearing I'm usually on top, or behind 1 rogue(who does retarded dps). When there's alot of aoe involved, like spider wing trash, I lose to frost mages with shatter by a large margin. I'd say unflasked, I'm still right at the top of the DMs with consistency, in general though.
Re: the ignite. We've got 5 fire mages(or more, don't remember) and the ignite is usually up on the mob, 5 stack ignites are fairly common as well. It's a huge boon to raid dps, as fire mages stack with each other so well. Keeping 2-3 frost mages with imp blizz, frostbite etc are useful though.
Dude, my gear, dps wise, is just as good as yours, hell I beat you on DM just about every fight, every night, without flasks. You just have ALOT more hp/mana than me. Regarding ignite, it seems that the ignite takes the highest damage crit and uses that for the stack. I'm not 100% sure though, but I think I've seen 5 stack ignites do more damage than the previous tick. Example, when I had an ignite tick for 3900, 3900, 4500, 4500, 4500.
Well what I said is accurate but perhaps it mischaracterizes your gear some. I forget sometimes how much "papa" gear you have :p.
Edit: Actually I just looked at your ctprofile and forgot you don't wear dual rings of spellpower anymore! As to the beating me without comsumables comment though, I will decline to argue it here seeing as I will end up losing whether I am right or not :p
Well, I don't care *that* much about it - I just find it funny when every single mage spams "max hit last fight" after every BWL trash mob, or recap goes nuts with them doing thousands of DPS.
When our last rogue officer left (pre 1.11) he charged me w/ making sure rogues stayed on top of the damage heap - so now whenever he logs in to say hi, it's to a barrage of gloating mages. So he griefs me, but only in good fun.
I guess I'd just really like a better real time indicator of damage. Granted, I just recently ditched "damage meters" and have been running recap, and I haven't RTFM yet, so I'm plain ignorant as to how nuanced it can be, but I've resorted to resetting Recap for every boss fight - which means I really can't track a large enough sample of data for each of our rogues. I could always "ignore X mage" from the meter, but I would like to be able to track damage on the macro level as well (class v class distinctions, etc). Ignite just really screws the picture up.
My guild is nowhere near Patchwerk, but I had a question:
Do DPS classes have no fear of pulling aggro this fight? I mean, can rogues go all out without feinting, DPS warriors use HS without fear? I read something along these lines but it wasn't very clear and I haven't seen anything of the like again.
Papa, considering the cost of flasking mages, would you still say mages are the best single target dps when not flasked?
I had a couple questions about rolling ignites as well. Is there any sort of priority in the ignite stack? Can higher damage fire crits overwrite older ones, or is it basically first five crits?
Papa has pretty gimp gear, half of which is probably mc quality, so maybe that's the reason he flasks for just about every fight, and yes I think it's many people's opinion in my guild that fire mages are the best single target DPS when the mob has high AC (like patchwerk). As for the ignite question, it *seems* like older ignites are overwritten by new ignite damage, but to be honest I have never really paid too much attention to it.
I say rolling ignite ticks is all a matter of luck, whoever crits as the tick rolls off will gain the damage from the ignite.
DPS meter from this week's kill.
We had a mage at 760 dps last week, this week we had a longer kill(6:40). However in that time period he only did 266k damage in 6:40, in comparison. All our mages are fire/arcane.
Last week's.
273k damage in 6:01, it just seems to be like whoever's able to steal the ignite tick and hold onto it with as many repetitive crits as possible.
I have no idea why our rogue dps is very undersided compared to other guilds, I'll just keep telling them to l2p.
Originally Posted by Deathwing
Christ. If that's "gimp" gear I'd hate to see mages in full ilvl 80+ gear with the C'thun drops and Wraith Blade.
My guild is nowhere near Patchwerk, but I had a question:
Do DPS classes have no fear of pulling aggro this fight? I mean, can rogues go all out without feinting, DPS warriors use HS without fear? I read something along these lines but it wasn't very clear and I haven't seen anything of the like again.
I believe so, correct me if I am wrong, but I think he picks the puller and just attacks till the puller dies. Think Buru the Gorger.
07/11/06, 8:20 AM
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