it's not the puller. it's his first melee target. we pull with a hunter and have the tank bloodrage/hunter feign.

What if feign resists? Hunter goes splat?

Back to the mage discussion, I was thinking some geared along the likes of
http://ctprofiles.net/2367152

730 fire dmg.

Oh God, so that just means MT death = wipe more or less because those rogues/mages (once again I don't know if he'd move to the ranged ones, from all I've read he wouldn't)/DPS warriors will all be killed in seconds and there goes your DPS.

I find that most raid bosses wipe you when your MT dies.

Could be a couple of things: spec matters a great deal for rogues(rather unfortunately) as do buffs. If they've got kings/might/salv/TSA/battleshout/mongoose(which I believe is the standard alliance "DPS fight" buff loadout), then they should be respectable. Obviously Firewater/Juju/Scorpok Assay/Grilled Squid can also provide boosts and are as close as melee get to flasking up.

When are the various parties going in? Our rogues tend to do a lot of damage because all our DPS goes in basically as soon as a mob is looking in the general direction of a tank. It results in dead DPS classes once in a while on trash, but on the whole things die faster. If the mages are nuking immediately but rogues waiting around for a bit to get firm aggro, that might cause it.

Well there is this one rogue in your guild who regularly posts on the Rogue boards saying seal fate is better damage than combat daggers.

Xizorz, with gear like that, what I've seen and read about patchwerk, he should be topping dmg meters, pretty easily.

If your rogues are across-the-board doing that low damage, it means one of three things: 1. None of them are specced optimally for PvE DPS, 2. The ones that are specced for optimal DPS don't understand how to play it, 3. They don't have a full buff set.

In this fight you should have groups setup as War, Rog, Rog, Rog, TSA Hunter for your melee DPS - two of these and that covers 6 rogues. Then they really do need to have their Mongoose/Giants/Squid -- it's not that expensive and adds a solid amount of DPS. Is Patchwerk fully-sundered the whole time? Are you using CoR? Alliance Rogues with full BWL/AQ gear should be hitting 600 DPS easily in this fight. The rogue up there who did only 580 DPS with a Death's Sting and Harbinger of Doom really needs to l2p.

That group setup is not optimal for horde side.

We don't have a TSA specced hunter, so that's an obvious reason. It's fundamental in our group setup to pair rogues with a warrior for BS, yeah they're potted up with mongoose/giants/squid. We don't CoR Patchwerk, I'm not a fan of it on high dps mobs.

They probably aren't all specced combat daggers, our rogues are all in full DD or DD with BF with death's sting, aqr, or rank 14. -edited-

Vitaminc is a moron.

you don't have *A* trueshot hunter? i was pretty shocked when making groups the other night to find out our newest hunter recruit DIDN'T have trueshot aura. heh.

is your guild heavily PVP oriented? from the sounds of it you have a lot of suboptimal raiding specs..

Sounds like you do though. TSA does provide a marked DPS boost, while silly specs do not.

You hit it on the nose, we're originally a heavily pvp oriented guild. But we've been focusing on PVE and Naxx fully in 1.11.

I'm surprised myself we don't have a TSA hunter.

I do now.

Well, each Rogue without TSA loses maybe 20 DPS (though it depends on spec, of course).

That's why I specified alliance :P.

Well, with my gear and buff setup for the fight + Giants/Mongoose/Grilled Squid, my predicted DPS is 652. If I dropped Kings, Might, and my main hand poison, and instead got GoA, SoE, and Windfury, predicted DPS would be 663.

Chalon, does that factor in the higher ranks of SoE and GoA, and the improved totems talents?

On this mob in particular wouldn't you be dropping the consecrated stone? I wonder if you could factor that in.

Well, that's without Improved Weapon Totems or Enhanced Totems. But last I checked (earlier in the thread) that only improves the DPS from Windfury by 2-3 tops. GoA and SoE are both +77 agi and str respectively right?

If you have 2/2 Improved Weapon Totems and 2/2 Enhanced Totems, it goes from 663 to 672.

Yeah but I don't have any Consecrated Sharpening stones :(. Depending on the speed of your MH, though, going from Instant Poisons to a Consecrated Sharpening Stone is only 2-3 DPS.

doh. :-P you can just offhand the consecrated stone and mainhand poison too, or use stones on each.

i farmed 120 consecrated stones before the invasion ended on our server, and i'm positive i'm going to end up wishing i had more.

Yeah, my recommendation for the stones is to use one only on your off-hand, as that provides like a ~7 DPS boost (depends on speed of course).